[Home]CommunityOutcast

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When someone doesn't respect the decision of a community that he is an UnwelcomeVisitor - and doesn't leave in peace after CommunityExile - he may become a community outcast.

Here is how we may recognize an outcast:

Note that we don't recommend casting people out. This page is about recognizing community outcasts and dealing with them, including reintegration etc.

Note: it may be impossible to transform a member of another community to an outcast. It might be ineffective, because he has a place to retreat. This might be also interpretated as an "declaration of war" between the two communities. On the other hand, if the reasons are serious, he might lose his member status at his home community (for damaging the reputation of his community) and become an outcast anyway.


This page is part of SuggestedWikiRoleModel

This is a perfect synonym for CommunityExile, so I recommend folding the two into one page. (See first paragraphs on CommunityExile).

I'll have to study this. But I think there are differences. CommunityOutcast is not about observation or facts, it is about a role that is deliberately created (like other roles) for the future as part of a community culture. If it is created, it is created because we can't live without it. Exile is different from outcast. Outcast is a much stronger threat. It is not relative to the community, but it works across many communities as far as the influence of the community reaches.

Not really, as we do not control all communities, only those that are essentially the same community. Exile and outcast I think are the same, and it would help to have only one page. Different sections though might work. -- SunirShah

An exile may be honorable (it often was in history). An outcast looses all his honour and most of his rights.

To my feeling - also as a German, knowing a bit about this beautiful country's recent history - this page goes far too far. Who do you think to be? F****** God, or what? "Outcast" that is somebody who has been socially killed, a term from the middleages. Wanna attach a yellow star instead of a barn-star on these people's pages? With a big 0 in it for "Outcast"? One basic thing about the difference of rules and recommendations. You need power to execute a punishment on someone disobeying to a rule. Examples: Gestapo, Stasi ... The consequence is a predefined hierarchic surface where StigMergy? can't unfold. Every human where and whenever has and has had and will allways have the freedom to decide not to obey to a rule. Therefore forget about the whole concept. On wiki people have the power. And people make friendly recommendations to oneanother and they know that listening to and conciddering these recommendations is for common advantage. Excuse a centain emotionality of this contribution, there is no intention of mine to start any FlameWar, please, but this here disappointed me, and I'm not used to beeing disappointed on Meatball. 040127 15:25 UTC, +01h -- MattisManzel

Mattis, perhaps you're over-reacting. The above is not talking about implicit communities (cf ForcedCommunity?) like your neighborhood or town (but even in implicit communities there are extreme cases warranting "outcasting", i.e., criminals), but consensual communities (cf ConsensualCommunity?). Consensual communities are groups that get together because they choose to, not because they implicitly share locality. As such, a consensual community is free to define its own borders. A bartender is free to kick out patrons he dislikes, for example if they are troublemakers or fail to pay. If you're having friends over for dinner you're free not to invite your neighbor over, no matter how loudly they protest.

Wikis are the same: they are consensual communities. A group of friends has absolutely no obligation to welcome someone into the group. Now maybe if a particular group isn't very welcoming that's not the sort of group you want to join. But you go so far as suggesting that it is evil, which is not at all the case. -- anon.

Mattis, please read AnswerToCliffordAdams? to dive into the problem (especially the discussion at the end). The outcast threat is not used for rule violations, but for people insisting to fight the basic social consensus that e. g. you have special rights at your home. This is not about yellow stars, it is about the equivalent of criminal behaviour online and how to avoid it being forced onto a community under the labels of "equal rights" and "freedom". -- HelmutLeitner


Perhaps change:

to

I'd make the change myself, except that it swizzles the meaning a bit from "PunishReputation", so I wanted to make sure first. -- anon

Sunir's comment helped me understand how these "role" pages can be understood: descriptive instead of prescriptive. And if we're talking about "How do we recognize a community outcast? What are other people doing to that person in order to make him an outcast in our eyes?" -- if that's our point of view, then there's no need to soften our description. We may (as I tried to do right below the three items above) comment upon the practice of "outcasting" people. There we can talk about how to soften this terrible weapon, there we can talk about the cruelty of expelling somebody from society. -- AlexSchroeder

I think there is a deep failure on this page when it talks about losing honour and thus punishing reputation. It seems to me that it loses focus. Is our purpose to cast devine judgment and retribution on people... or BarnRaising? We should aim for the quickest and most efficient means to remove distractions; we should certainly avoid creating more distractions. Wasting energy fighting with someone seems to me exactly the thing we are trying to avoid in the first place. FightingIsBoring. -- SunirShah


Another name for this process is to send someone to Coventry, but that term is more applicable to DissuadeInteraction or CommunityWiki:WallOfSilence.


CategoryConflict


Discussion

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