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Hello Metaball. Thinking of Freud, ClementFreud? married Jill, CSLewis' old housekeeper. Did anyone know that? And their daughter Emma married RichardCurtis?, with whom I went to school. Richard's been very involved with the Jubilee2000Campaign through ComicRelief?. Connections like this are great for capturing on a Wiki but WardsWiki may not be interested in every such connection.

ReputationEconomics anonymous?

Perhaps it says something about RichardDrake that he only just looked, for the very first time, at each reference to him - or at least to his name - on Meatball. I wasn't disappointed by the number of references, that they be too many or few. I was a trifle disappointed by what has been attributed to me here. But let's start with the positive. I was really rather touched and impressed by Keith's comments in WhyClublet. I think his suspicion at the end is reasonably held! And I also appreciated Sunir's comments at the end of that page.

I don't think it's worth interrupting any other page where my actions and motives on Wiki and Why are described and discussed, mostly by Sunir. But sadly I didn't once think "fair comment". Thoughts came like "extraordinary", "wrong", "defamatory" and "why would anyone bother after so long?". But I realise the last point is misleading. I am the person bothering after so long, by clicking on my name on Meatball. And the main point is that, although I am not unbothered by my reputation and how it affects me and the wellbeing of my family, it's easier than ever to say "I love you Sunir". It's true.

That reminds me of two other expressions of love refered to here. One was the process with Sam after the WikiMindWipe, mentioned in GoodBye. I think it's important to record that I confronted Sam, that my honesty and genuine concern for his well-being led to a really very cathartic moment by email, as he opened up about some tragedies in the past. The "I love you" message on his home page I don't regret, because it was from the heart and I'm sure that it did Sam and Wiki good, on balance. Certainly Sam has been extremely warm to me ever since! But I realised at the time that it pissed some people off too. It's certainly fair to point out the dangers of rewarding - or being seen to reward - bad behavior, as Sunir is doing in GoodBye. I'm not familiar with later mind wipes on Wiki.

The other expression of love was in Wiki:ItsWardsWiki. I remember ever so well how that was read and attacked by Sunir at the time, publically, as both sychophantic and an outrageous appeal to authority in the middle of my unstated goal of "changing all the social norms of Wiki" or whatever. It simply wasn't any of that. I had just come off the phone from Ward and he sounded really sad about the state of Wiki. Now that I look back at what I wrote - it's as I left it, as far as I can recall - I'm really glad to see how I stressed first that Wiki belonged to all of us. That was a remarkable and wonderful fact at that point, at least in my experience. It was soon not to feel like that for me. Sunir's inaccurate, pejorative and unteachable attitude to my intended meaning was part of what made the whole thing - not just the ReputationEconomics but the beautiful experience of partnership - go wrong for me and, I think, for some others.

But I still think that I should have been more sensitive about how I was being viewed. Just because my motives were always better - and my actions much more servant-like - than is recorded on Meatball doesn't mean I wasn't insensitive to the valid concerns of others. I'm sure I was. It is great to be able to record this here. -- Richard

I'm glad you can record this too. MeatballWiki suffers from the WikiNow just as WhyClublet does with respect to my name and reputation; I don't bother much any longer. I don't think in all the years we've known each other, we've had an adult conversation yet about how each other perceived the world. Partly, that was because I was not an adult, but rather a smug little AntiAuthoritarian from deep in the bowels of net.culture. Partly also because you never gave me an inch from the first day, piqueing my AntiAuthoritarianism. However, I understand much better now why you felt the need to do that. Thinking back, I see the tension between the close friends on c2 and a colony from net.culture who perceived it as wider and more open, a tension I am accutely feeling here on Meatball. I am truly and deeply sorry that I was overreaching in my response, because I did not understand either you, your perspective, or how to respond. Fortunately, MeatballWiki and I also have ForgiveAndForget. Thank you for coming here to write this. I will now unwrite some things as "Wiki:WikiPenance". -- SunirShah

Respect, as Why:AliG says (and does that work? Yes!)

There are concepts here that I'm sure I don't fully understand - all the nuances of "AntiAuthoritarian from deep in the bowels of net.culture" for starters - and a way of telling the story that I strongly suspect I would not fully recognize, even if I understood it. Perhaps a way to explain how remarkable Wiki was in those days is that here was a medium where, if you didn't give someone an inch, they could still take a mile!

What I agree with is that that describes neither democracy nor adult conversation. In some circumstances the only way to be adult is to say "I am truly and deeply sorry." And to mean it, for all the right reasons. I take it that Sunir means it, and that the reasons he finds to say it are close enough for this to make a real difference.

Where does that take the Richard and Sunir story? I don't know. All I know is that I was planning or hoping for some changes in WhyClublet, hopefully before Christmas - Christmas 2004, to be a bit more precise. I'd like to let Sunir know a bit more about those possibilities, if and when they arise, and to see what grows from there. -- RichardDrake

Emailing in advance

... is not something that would occur to me, never having been asked to do so on any wiki previously. -- HansWobbe.

The unique context in this case should I believe have created respectful silence from all, even those who don't believe in prayer! I'm not joining the community at this point, in any sense. But my editing may have surprised some, that so far I have managed to defy the predictions of Why:VickiKerr of my imminent demise (back in 2001 on Why:HiddenAgenda). Those that are pleased about that are extremely welcome to email me with their congratulations at richard@clublets.com or to introduce themselves in any other way! -- Richard



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