It's been over 10 months since anyone edited MeatballWikiTopic, which may indicate that the issues were resolved, or more likely, that they were never really addressed, and the spirit of the question simply faded away. If the latter, then the view I have as a newcomer is that Meatball topics are not overly wordy or intellectual or boring, but that contrasts, comparisons, and dissent are simply browbeaten. There is a fear we intellectuals can have in letting go, allowing that other reasonable people can reach quite different conclusions using the same resources, and so it is all-too-easy to shout them down or just ignore them as a threat to our group. What happens is they go away and find somewhere else to put their genius, which only hurts us, not them.
Meatball needs to be more open to new ideas, whether it's only regarding one issue, or a hundred of them with many new contributors. No discussion can continue forever when all the members agree and when all others have been pushed away. From my perspective, Meatball was already irrelevant to my wiki experiences before I discovered it over a year ago, but that in no way means it cannot be relevant again, or relevant in a different way, to a different crowd, for different reasons. The definition of insanity, they say, is trying the same thing over and again while expecting different results. Without becoming open to challenges and different points of view, Meatball, and other wikis, remain models of wiki "insanity". The reason I'm here is to suggest trying a different approach, in order to gain a different result. -GetProteus (18 April, 2005)
Then just do it. Post your different point of view or your challenge on one of the pages. Let's have a new idea. This is the only way to see whether your statements are a true assessment of the situation. (Obviously posting "I don't agree with your UseRealNames policy because you should be open to new ideas" is boring -- not using real names is not a new idea, it's a boring old idea that has been been discussed over an over again.) -- AlexSchroeder "interested in new ideas"
Right. Well, since you asked, you could guess my ideas would include relaxing this real name business, of course, because that one change would open things up to more diverse contributors. It would mean other points of view could be shared without those using a PenName being browbeaten immediately with the same old arguments (seems obvious, that if you've heard the same objections over and over, year after NavelGazing? year, then perhaps there's something to them). Also, opening up the topic bottlenecks would help, so that larger, wider, alternate, and otherwise different theories could be discussed besides those of one or two academics who dominate the site. Before you disagree, don't assume you've challenged me, because I have lots of ideas, and it's mostly that I'm curious if any other Meatballers, or potential Meatballers, have had lingering ideas of their own. The air in here is quite stuffy, after all, falling somewhere between a tutorial for sophomores and a social club initiation... -GetProteus
Mark, I agree with Alex. Your "you must change your rules" and "only then can I (people) offer new ideas" is not credible. There is no community without borders and one can always talk about changing them. But it is not up to a visitor or guest to do this. -- HelmutLeitner
Hm, I'm not sure you answered my point. Here's how I see it, trying to put some structure into it:
To me, the two are not necessarily related. This is why I wanted to separate the two issues: Is there a new idea, and are we open to it, without having to change our real names policy?
I basically see three possible answers:
Oh, and I don't like snide remarks such as "The air in here is quite stuffy, after all, falling somewhere between a tutorial for sophomores and a social club initiation..."
Yes, you also claimed somebody should present new ideas. Feel free to go ahead and do that. I'm still waiting.
Since come across as rather unfriendly in your reply, I don't feel too constrained by politeness as I reply. I do hope you understand why.
You ask why I argue? As I said, I don't understand why you keep challenging. Why oh why? And why can't we keep the two isses separate? Why? Yes indeed, why why why? Why don't you answer the question? We should relax. Fine. This is why I wanted to separate the discussion into 1. ideas and 2. using real names. I felt it should be possible to discuss only part one. I guess not with you.
Also, please consider to write more clearly, since obviously I seem to have missed so much of your message -- humor, verbs, whatever. I feel like I tried hard to read, and I don't feel like you tried hard to write.
Furthermore, you feel it is your role to 1. call for new ideas (bravo!) 2. challenge our policy (huh!?) and 3. you don't feel like you have to come up with new ideas (hm...) -- what does that mean? You basically just challenge the policy. How boring. And here I was thinking that you also had new ideas to offer. And with that, I decided to move this exchange to your name page, since it has nothing to do with the MeatballWikiTopic anymore. Or are you confusing policy with topic?