Tabs to spaces:
Many browsers have problems with tabs. I cannot type them by hitting the tab or ctrl+i keys. If I need them I seek another page that already has a tab on it, and use cut and paste. A well-designed Wiki should not require me to do this, in my view. -- DaveHarris
Indeed - I appreciate the unordered lists. Another simple idea is to treat runs of spaces as tabs - say 4 per tab, at least when they come at the beginnings of lines. JosWiki does this. -- DaveHarris
PS I've grown to hate the indented interpolated comment look of dictionary lists, so it doesn't bother me that I can't type them. -- DaveHarris
treat runs of spaces with tabs
While this would be nice, it breaks code formatting. Maybe use *, **, *** unordered list and #, ##, ### ordered list and """block quote""" ?? -- SunirShah
(Discussion moved to TabsAndSpacesDiscussion.)
For ordered lists, the # character seems OK, but I vaguely recall that the # character may not be on some international keyboards. (Then again, ordered lists are rare, so I might not really care.) Quotes are a problem--it is reasonable to start a line with double-quotes. In some fonts they are difficult to distinguish from two single-quotes. I was considering : (colon) for the indented block-quote. -- CliffordAdams
I'm leaning toward keeping the old tab-based Wiki formatting, but I'm wondering if *anyone* really likes it. One argument against keeping it is that some browsers mangle tabs in the edit area. Another argument is that mixing old/new styles will make the edit pages ugly. Perhaps I could detect the old style and convert it to the new style when it is saved?
Eventually (after 1.0) I'd like to offer a subset of HTML tags, since they are popular in many forums. --CliffordAdams
I've implemented alternate forms of numbered lists, definition lists (quote blocks), and preformatted text. See the SandBox, and later the TextFormattingRules. --CliffordAdams
Perhaps you could escape preformatted text with <PRE></PRE> tags. This would get around the "space in to monospace" rule. -- SunirShah
Right now, I'm thinking of adding a pseudo-tag "<pre>", with a closing "</pre>". I've been annoyed at the current handling of preformatted text. --CliffordAdams [Now done. --CA]
Note: link delimiters have changed since this text was written. See TextFormattingRules for the current situation.
There is a (de facto) bug in the link pattern for URLs where-by they include trailing punctuation. Strictly speaking, URLs may end in commas, full stops and question marks, and certainly you should allow these characters in the middle of an URL, but when they occur at the end they are almost always intended as punctuation. I believe this has been fixed for page links, eg LinkPattern, but not for URLs, eg http://www.bhresearch.co.uk/DrhFeed.htm. -- DaveHarris
At first I resisted this, because I don't want to restrict valid (although unusual) URLs. However, I just realized that you could add a second punctuation character to the end in the (hopefully very rare) case that the actual URL ends with punctuation. For instance: http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl? is a reasonable URL (the ? is useless). After the change is made, one would need to use something like http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?. to use the ? character in the URL. Yes, I worry too much. --CliffordAdams
Done. --CliffordAdams (who spent more time typing the paragraph above than fixing the problem)
This is Wiki:StillBroken!! <-- note the two punctuation marks in a row. More commonly exemplified as (Wiki:Foo, Wiki:Bar, Wiki:Baz).
The sites ("http://www.usemod.com/" and "http://c2.com") are good.
...which would be rendered like:
The sites (http://www.usemod.com/ and http://c2.com) are good.
Wiki:FrontPage includes the </em> in the URL.
The ; formatting didn't work properly if the definition term contained HTML-special characters like <>& which are quoted. (The quoted form contains a ;, which was taken as the delimiter of the term.) For instance, the following example was mangled:
;<b>Bold text term</b>;Some text here.
Resolved by changing the second character to a colon (:). Only 8 pages had used this formatting rule.
The search feature seems to be broken... When I just tried searching for "Meme" using the search text-box, I received a "cgi/bin access forbidden" error. Side-effect of the changes at the hosting provider? Hopefully a quick fix.
Went back in and tested it (this time with both Mozilla and Netscape). I can't see any difference in the HTML between UseModWiki and MeatballWiki, but UseModWiki searches work just fine, whereas MeatballWiki searches continue to produce the error. And yet, if I manually type in http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?search=meme, everything's hunky-dory.
Correction: MeatballWiki has a <BASE> tag in its pages, whereas UseModWiki doesn't. That <BASE> tag, at least in Netscape and Mozilla, causes searches to funnel through the given URL. Which, in this case, is simply http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/, which doesn't seem to be happy getting a POST.
When you go into EditPage?, the editor window does not wrap at the margin. If you type, it shows up as a very long line, which is not as useful as it would be if it wrapped. -- AnonymousDonor
Browser, version, operating system?
Redhat Linux 6.2 Browser is kfm version 126.96.36.199. The non-wrapping behavior is only present in the Editing window. Once I hit the Save button, the page reloads and the words are wrapped correctly. -- AnonymousDonor
Your browser is malfunctioning. It is munging the edit text. You can see some evidence on MeatballWikiCopyright (if you hurry). -- SunirShah
Munging? I am trying kfm, as my Linux box keeps crashing when running Netscape. I'm not sure how I could screw up text on one page, and not text on another. Rather, from what I see, the wrapping on the pages is broken as well. The page width seems to depend on the longest indented line. For example, this page has no indented lines and wraps normally. Both LimitTemptation and MeatballWikiCopyright are as wide as the longest indented line. I don't think that is a function of my browser. -- AnonymousDonor
On WardsWiki the behavior is the same. Things seem to wrap correctly for reading pages, but do not wrap in the edit text window. I do not think that makes this a non-bug. Perhaps it is low priority, but it is still odd that it works this way on any browser. -- AnonymousDonor
September 18, 2000: Apparently the "wrap=virtual" works on most browsers, since I haven't heard any other complaints in the past few months. I've tested it on multiple versions of MSIE, Netscape, and Lynx, and all of them were happy with the wrapping. I think I'll move this to the "resolved" section, as there is nothing much I can do from the server side. --CliffordAdams
The double-double-quote LinkPattern break doesn't work outside of an actual link. Which hurts when you want to write something like
which emits as Link""Pattern. -- SunirShah
and the link will be prevented without *any* special formatting. The multi-line <pre> tags prevent linking, mostly to make them useful for code samples. If you want preformatted text with links, you will have to put one or more spaces at the front of each line, like:
LinkPattern goes here. This is more preformatted text with links like UseMod:RecentChanges
[Edit this page to see the samples. --CliffordAdams]
I had also problems with this (being used to the Wiki:SixSingleQuotes of WikiWikiWeb).
Can't you just wrap the entire code segment in a <nowiki></nowiki> pair?
That will work fine for code snippets (using pre), and in fact this an extreme advantage compared to the situation in WikiWikiWeb. But in the text around the snippets, were you talk about the functions, you can't avoid to mix function names, links and formatting. -- hl
[The original attempt at using cookie domains didn't work, so UseModWiki now uses the BASE attribute to keep people at www.usemod.com. See the end of this section for details.]
My UserName didn't show up in RecentChanges even though my preferences lists it. cr82441-a.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com has a cookie installed unlike ottawa.oti.com which I also post from. -- SunirShah
Ok, and it showed up when I edited this page. Don't get it. --ss
It has to do with the "www" third level domain. When I use it, I get my cookie. When I don't use it, I don't get my cookie. There must be some way around this. --ss
This policy breaks the functionality of UserPreferences?. Some (most?) people will be coming to MeatballWiki as http://usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl? as that's what I've been writing the links as! (Doh!) However, you could try setting <BASE HREF="http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/"> inside the <HEAD></HEAD> tags when generating the pages and see if that helps. -- SunirShah
I'm leaning toward adding the cookie domain option, and setting it to "usemod.com". UseModWiki has a cookie-name option so that multiple wikis can have separate cookies within a single domain. I'm also thinking of printing your current User-ID/UserName on the editing page, so you can easily see which UserName you currently have. --CliffordAdams
It seems that the cookie domain feature doesn't do what I'd like. The biggest problem is that the cookie standard requires two dots in the "domain" field, which means that here the domain would be ".usemod.com". (Plain "usemod.com" doesn't work.) MSIE 5.0 sends ".usemod.com" cookies to the plain "usemod.com" domain, but Lynx (at least my ISP's old version) and Netscape 4.75 won't send the cookie back to the plain "usemod.com". (They might just do a simple right-side matching, and fail because the cookie-domain has an extra "." character.)
The current (September 1, 2000) solution is to add a $SiteBase optional configuration variable. If it is set, it will be used as the BASE value in all non-error headers. It is still possible to go directly to a "usemod.com" page, but all the links on that page will point to "www.usemod.com". [This change has now been added to the public Meatball wiki, and will be included in the next public release.]
Also, in the near future I plan to add a "login" capability to allow users to share a single User-ID from multiple locations. One could use the login feature to share cookies between "www.usemod.com" and "usemod.com" if one uses both URLs. Still, the official URL is www.usemod.com, and that is what should be used for any future links. --CliffordAdams
Couldn't you just make a list of sites in the cookie for usemod.com? So, if you had FooWiki and BarWiki on example.com, in the .example.com cookie, you'd list the ordered pairs: (FooWiki, FooWiki user ID), (BarWiki, BarWiki userID). So, when you fetch the cookie, you extract the appropriate user ID for the current site and move on with your life? You have 4kb of data.. plenty of space. --SunirShah
See RFC 2109 and http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Internet/Cookies/ for more than you ever wanted to know about cookies.
I don't believe all changes listing is working. http:mb.pl?action=rc&all=1
You should change the ALT tag in the logo IMG tag to be alt="[Home] ", or place a space between the image and the title link. In the latter case, you should still might want to make the alt tag alt="[Home]" so it's clearer. The reason is that on LynxBrowser, the following renders as "HomeMeatballWikiBugs":
<a href="mb.pl?MeatballWiki"><img src="/meatball.gif" alt="Home" border=0 align="right"></a><a href="mb.pl?search=MeatballWikiBugs">MeatballWikiBugs</a></H1>
Someone created a WikiName (by typing in a URL) that begins with a slash:
I moved the text to a new name. But now some people (maybe everyone who entered an e-mail in Preferences?) are receiving e-mail announcements they didn't ask for, i think when the last browser to edit the /SriLankanActivists page edits another page.
If it's a question of administrative data in the WikiDataFiles?, what and where? And are there any WikiTools available for a Unix-barely-literate user to interact with such data in the UseModWiki files? (I'll learn to use Perl on the CommandLine?, i'm asking about custom tools :-). --JohnAbbe
URLs like mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org (escaped in nowiki) are interpreted as an image link. This often makes the user's browser start a mail program. Arguably this is a browser defect, but it is far easier to fix the wiki than the popular browsers.
My first instinct is to simply limit images to http: or ftp: URLs. People with gopher-served images will just have to suffer. Any other ideas? --CliffordAdams
Two double quotes are not always the same as Wiki:SixSingleQuotes.
For that matter, in the last example, the Six Single Quotes do not break up the link pattern the same way as Wiki:SixSingleQuotes). But this way (simply tossing the first word, but not the rest of the LinkPattern) may be better than Wiki:SixSingleQuotes.
Of course it's optimal--it works just the way I like it. :-) Scott's explanation is correct--the double-quotes are only special as a terminator. The Wiki:SixSingleQuotes behavior is not an official feature of UseModWiki--it could conceivably go away. The proper way to get the same behavior in UseModWiki is to use the nowiki tag.
For the last example given, UseModWiki does not require a "word break" (a non-alphabetic character or the beginning of the text) before a LinkPattern. For instance, consider abcLinkPattern. This could be confusing in cases like abcSampleUndefinedPage, since it isn't clear what the question-mark covers. See below for an earlier report of this non-un-misbug. If one really wants to confuse people, one could even make links like LinkPatternLinkPattern (separated by ""). Don't make links like that (or someone will fix them :-). --CliffordAdams
The Preview button on the edit page doesn't seem to be working for me. When I hit it, I just get a new edit page. Am I confused, or is this a bug? --JeffDairiki
Aha!/Doh! Yes it's there. Very nice. --JeffDairiki