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[moved from WikiAsRoom]. Two situations, you meet someone in a prison cell or you meet someone in the mirror room in Versailles. The room you meet in has a lot of influence on your behavior. It mostly has a lot of influence on the other people in it which again interact with you. The Zauber of the room, the quality of a fire to gather around has tremendous influence of the social interactions.

Fire, the biggest booster on human communication ever. A fire makes community, it means wamth and light and security. A fire makes gravitation, it attracts people, you see in from far away. A room has walls. They keep people from leaving and joining. Maybe the american indians had a wiki-adequate knowledge of the qualities of a fire. Another aspect that apeals to me is that the social happenings around a fire/in a wiki have a center. The fire itself, a space were every soul gets burnt in but where everybody is related to - like to a common enigma. You can not enter it. You stay close to it, in a distance you decide. You approach it, you make distance to it. Everybody in your community does. Wikis are fires you can move from one to another in the speed of light and without efforts. It's like the big plains in 1830, hundreds of sioux and apache and commache fires and you are speedy gonzales.

Lemme go deeper into the metaphor. There is a human evolution and there is a technological evolution, an evolution of the exteriorizated brains, and they are related to each other like a turtle and the supersonic bang following it. What we are doing is similar to what brave prehistorian humans learned to do hundreds of thousands of years ago. They learned to maintain a fire.

-- [Mattis Manzel]

Deux situations, vous rencontrez quelqu'un dans une cellule de prison ou quelqu'un dans la galerie des glaces à Versailles. La pièce dans laquelle vous vous rencontrez a beaucoup d'influence sur votre comportement. Elle a essentiellement beaucoup d'influence sur les autres personnes présentes qui à nouveau interagissent avec vous. L'âme de la pièce, la qualité du feu pour se rassembler autour a une influence énorme sur les interactions sociales.

Le Feu, le plus grand booster jamais vu dans la communication humaine. Un feu produit une communauté, il dégage chaleur, lumière et sécurité. Un feu produit de la gravitation, il attire les personnes, vous le voyez de loin. Une pièce a des murs. Ces murs empêchent les personnes de sortir ou rentrer. Peut-être que les amérindiens ont eu une connaissance-wiki-adéquate des qualités d'un feu. Un autre point qui m'interpelle est que les événements sociaux autour d'un feu/dans un wiki ont un centre. Le feu lui-même, un espace où chaque âme devient brûlée mais où tout le monde est rattaché - comme une énigme commune. Vous ne pouvez y entrer. Vous restez à proximité, à une distance que vous décidez. Vous l'approchez, vous prenez de la distance avec elle. Tout le monde le fait dans votre communauté. Les wikis sont des feus que vous pouvez déménager d'un endroit à un autre à la vitesse de la lumière et sans efforts. C'est comme les grandes plaines en 1830, des centaines de feux de sioux, d'apaches et de commanches et vous êtes speedy gonzales.

Laissez moi aller plus loin dans la métaphore. Il existe une évolution humaine et il y a une évolution technologique, une évolution des cerveaux extériorisés, et ils sont rassemblés les uns les autres comme une tortue et le bang supersonique la suivant. Ce que nous faisons est similaire à ce que les braves humains préhistoriques ont appris à faire il y a des centaines de milliers d'années. Ils ont appris à maintenir un feu.

-- [Mattis Manzel]

[moved from WikiAsRoom]. Zwei völlig verschiedene Situationen: Du triffst jemanden in einer Gefängniszelle oder - du triffst ihn im Spiegelsaal von Schloss Versailles. Der Raum des Treffens hat großen Einfluss auf dein Verhalten und noch größeren Einfluss auf das der anderen Menschen, die in diesem Raum mit dir in Beziehung treten. Der Zauber des Raumes, die Qualität des Feuers, um das man sich versammelt, hat einen immensen Einfluss auf die sozialen Interaktionen.

Feuer, das größte Verstärkungswerkzeug für menschliche Kommunikation. Ein Feuer erzeugt Gemeinschaft, es bedeutet Wärme, Licht und Sicherheit. Feuer bedeutet Gravitation, zieht Menschen an, man kann es aus großer Entfernung sehen. Ein Raum besitzt Wände, Hindernisse für das Kommen und Gehen. Vielleicht hatten die Indianer wiki-relevantes Wissen über die Qualitäten des Feuers. Das Feuer selbst, ein Raum wo jeder und alles verbrennt, aber zu dem jeder in Beziehung steht - wie zu einem gemeinsam gehüteten Geheimnis. Man kann nicht ins Zentrum des Feuers, sondern nähert sich an, wählt eine passende Distanz. Jeder in deiner Gemeinschaft tut das auch. Wikis sind wie Feuer. Man kann sich von einem zum anderen bewegen, mit Lichtgeschwindigekeit und ohne Mühe. Wie in den großen Prairien des amerikanischen Westens um 1830. Hunderte von Feuern der Sioux, Kommanchen und Apachen und - du bist Speedy Gonzales.

Dringen wir tiefer ein in diese Metapher. Es gibt die menschliche Evolution und die technische Evolution, als eine Evolution extraterritorialer Intelligenz. Sie stehen in einer Beziehung wie eine Schildkröte und der ihr folgende Überschallknall. Wir tun im Grunde nichts anderes als die ersten tapferen prehistorischen Menschen. Wir lernen das Feuer zu hüten.

-- [Mattis Manzel]


Mattis, I think you hit the point with this textual visualization or verbal picture. Many have given answers to what a wiki is, but none has been half as convincing as yours. It's like MindTheGap. You are showing your genius. Keep going. -- HelmutLeitner

I agree with Helmut. Très convaincant en effet. Bravo and thanks Mattis for this nice piece. I just dropped here this first draft translation in LangueFrançaise to test any new MultilingualExperiment on MeatballWiki. The title could be translated as WikiCommeFeu ;) -- ChristopheDucamp

Thank you, Madison Square Garden. It should have been efforts instead of afford above, changed it. Pas des moyens financier mais des efforts. Merci. -- [Mattis Manzel]

They especially learned how to produce fire when and where the need appears. The stake is how to developp different kind of way to produce fire based on the diversity of resources in connection with human utilisations. If you just maintain the fire you are slave of your resources, scared to lose it, so you have to discover how to create fire when/where and how you want it. --SylvieBourguet

Currently founders are slaves of their fires. They learn how to produce fire, but it's hard and takes a lot of time. Then you fear that the fire might die, your efforts and resources wasted. Users come and like the fires, but they usually do not feel responsible to feed it. The problem is that people are used to live without the wiki-fire, that means in relative intellectual isolation. They don't feel the cold, because they are used to it. Maybe the first humans seeing a produced fire also thought: nice thing, but you can burn yourself, it takes continuous work, so ...not worth the effort. Only when the the frosty winter or the hungry wolves came, they saw sense. Perhaps the social cold of globalization and the cultural gaps feeding terrorism are the dangers that will prove that wiki fire - enabling people to globally collaborate and make friends - has value. -- HelmutLeitner

Founders maintain the fire because they don't want to see it die, it's natural to preserv what you create but founders are not eternal it's bio-logic ;-) so the question is about the trans-mission. We can imagine that each person is a node able to maintain his own fire which on one hand is connected to feed other fires and on the other hand is being fed by them. Each person would have the same interest in the maintainance of other's fires because it would be based on the reciprocity of the circulation of "material" to feed fire, so each node-fire would be maintained by the others ... --SylvieBourguet

Your pesonal network is not visble at the moment, a pitty. Your personal network, your function as a neuron in the [(community-wiki:) hive-mind], where the other neurons are situated you made synapes to and in what chronology, which the fires are you use to sit on and contribute and when you do so - all this is not yet transparent. Who is working with whom when and on what? I do not want to have to lurk for two weeks before asking who might know someone who works on "this and that". I want to write "this and that", press enter and then I want people. I want to know who they work with on what issues and on which wikis they do it. I want to know what they have been working on 6 months ago. I want to hop from one person to another like on foaf, but I want to hop along their "personal wiki-nodes", I want to move around like I want (and not like the tourbus wants), I want to draw circles gradually getting tighter, a spiral, til I finally have found the person(s) I want to contact, to make a synapses to, create a neuro-transmitter zone. And within five minutes I want to interacting with these people. This one is the net to be activated. It requires:

I corrected your english above Sylvie. Ok? -- MattisManzel

Thanks --SylvieBourguet

Mattis, I think that you go to far in your expectations. You want fully transparent people, but I think people - including you and me - don't want to be fully transparent. While you would like to know more about each active contributor, remember that for any active intransparent contributor there are about 20 readers that don't give any information at all. There are even scientist take wiki/wikizens like an object/species and write their dissertation, make their living from our systems, without ever contributing. -- HelmutLeitner


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