OrkutVsWiki

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Google just started the platform "orkut" (http://www.orkut.com, see also http://www.google.com/news?q=orkut).

It is quite nice to click there around.

Most things are not as well as in WikiWikiWeb.It is not worth the trouble to list all these.

But some features might even be better than in WikiWikiWeb. We should collect and analyse this.

it is nice to see friends of friends and what they are doing - we could also do that on a Wiki HomePage, just add links to homepages of friends in the wiki

perhaps we could try [FOAF] for that. We are making some experiments with FOAF on JuraWiki:FriendofaFriend (see also [FoafWiki]). For MoinMoin we discuss the the eventualities of implementation: MoinMoin:FriendofaFriend.

I was thinking about this. I think Peter VG (last name too complicated to remember without Orkut) had a good point that we joined orkut because it was a block party, not because it was good. I was complaining about how useless it was in a functionalist kind of way, but everyone was just playing. I was playing too; I'm concerned about a number of strange things it does to your life despite the fact we are playing with it, but still it isn't to be taken seriously. The question is, is there a serious application hidden underneath there that can actually be done reasonably? Then if we knew that maybe we could answer whether or not a wiki would be useful. -- SunirShah

There's already been some experimentation with connecting this sort of social networking data to, say, classifieds for roommates or job searches. (They do this over at Tribe.net, and I'm sure at many of the more business-focused sites like LinkedIn?.) Of course, one of the problems is that people tend to be extremely promiscuous with their social links, so the utility of a social connection by itself wouldn't mean much. They could be useful if you were to follow up, though: "Hi, Tom, I noticed Bill Jones is a friend of yours on Friendster, and he might be my next roommate ... do you think he would make a good roommate?" -- FrancisHwang

One could say that with SocialNetworks?, connection comes before content and with Wiki content comes before connection. -- RossMayfield

Not necessarily. Though it is obvious all SocialNetworks? are CommunityOverContent, not all wikis are ContentOverCommunity. Most wikis founded by former members of WikiWiki (MeatBall, ReformSociety?, GreenCheese, WhyClublet, etc.) are not, for instance. -- JohannesGijsbers

Signalons qu'en LangueFrançaise une traduction de cette page est en cours sur CraoWiki:OrkutVsWiki pour la tentative d'amorçage d'une discussion sur les SocialNetworks? francophones ;) -- ChristopheDucamp

I for one am sick and tired of joining each of these social network sites. I wish someone would just come out with an open (copyleft or better) site so that I can just join that one, and other up-and-coming sites can just copy the data from there for me. (i.e. not just my personal data, but the network graph; I don't want to re-specify my friends all over again with each new service) (I'm not saying that each user's personal data should be copyleft, just that the project as a whole should be open; my point is that none of these proprietary networks would allow users the option to easily export their data to a competitor, which is exactly the feature that I demand).

Once we have an open platform, we can start working together to add stuff that will actually make this stuff useful, such as trust metrics, WebOfTrustModeration, and a federated architecture (to allow different social network servers to interoperate).

I don't see why it hasn't been done. There's that FOAF stuff. Also, a friend of mine wrote a "trust server" (basically a social network server with trust metrics on top of it) almost 3 years ago (incidentally, the discussions with him about WebOfTrustModeration were what led me to MeatballWiki, I think).

-- BayleShanks

[I wrote this just before you edited your comment to mention FOAF!] I just wish these damn things would import and export FOAF data. But I'm not sure how that would work with copyright, given, for example, Orkut's [dodgy privacy policy] - [my FOAF file] is copyright me and always will be, which doesn't seem compatible with their policy, which is basically all your personal data are belong to us (sorry). -- EarleMartin

Well, it would work fine with an OPEN service (as opposed to a proprietary one)! It would be like MeatballWiki's DefaultCopyright. You own your data (meaning, your profile, and who you consider your friends), but you would grant the site a non-exclusive license to use it. The site would only export FOAF of your data with your permission. (but, other people who consider you their friends could export their FOAF, including the part about you being their friend; the only part you would own is who you consider a friend, not who considers you a friend).

So, there's no problem with a system that allows you to retain your copyright, while still allowing you to export your data when you choose.

-- BayleShanks

Right now we're in a situation where everybody's trying to define their own data structure and keep it as their own proprietary data. Eventually it's more likely that FOAF will fill the bill -- especially as FOAF continues to be integrated into blogging tools and as the standard grows and adapts. (FOAF only added "gender" as a datum a few months ago, which tells you all you need to know in the varying goals of FOAF designers and Friendster users.) Accordingly we'll see a situation where the economic opportunities come less from creating and storing the data to helping people create it themselves and then connect with one another. Think AOL vs. HTTP. -- FrancisHwang

OrkutVsWiki

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