MeatballWiki | RecentChanges | Random Page | Indices | Categories

A prototype inviting collaboration

from [Testing the prototype]

==[x][MeatballWiki]:[x][GoogleTagWiki] ==

First introduction of the concept

An illustrative simulated sneak preview, that uses GoogleTags

This innovative concept is a Wiki, where all [][WikiWord] links are handled by Google and not by the local database of the [][WikiEngine], even the title. This text demonstrates the idea in a nutshell, simulating manually the key features. For convenience, let's coin the term [][WikiTag] for a [][WikiWord], whose link mechanism is handled by Google. You noticed the option boxes "[]", that are later automatically created by the [][GoogleTagWikiEngine]. As a default only the [][TitleWikiTag] is checked. However, when visiting a [][TagWikiPage], the user is free to check an arbitrary [][WikiTagCombination], i.e. including or excluding the [][TitleWikiTag]. Now imagine, we have a couple or more :-) such [][GoogleTagWiki]s, then they share a common link database, for reference [][GoogleTagWikisShareGooglesLinkDataBase]s:

The [][TitleWikiTag] must of course appear twice (as title and as tag), such that the google engine gets an anchor, each other [][WikiTag] can appear more than once for the convenience of the users.


-- FridemarPache

== Discussion:==

Discussion Teaser

Why so much Linking

FridemarPache - I have followed lightly your activity for a while. This idea seems interesting, but honestly, I can't even read the above text because of all the linking, (dare I say weird linking for me). The idea seems interesting in a bare scan of it. If I understand correctly - you are using Google to find your WikiWords. I do that for [x][PeaceOrganizing]PeaceOrganizing and [x][OrganizedLabor]. I would encourage you to ponder the idea that WikiIsSlow? [x][WikiIsSlow]. Best, MarkDilley

MarkDilley: ([][CommentGoogleTagWiki]) thank you for your hints and your subtle reminder on my "prehistoric" suggestion, which reaches back into the old days of WardsWiki :-), you name it, Double Colon Messages. In such an Adressed and Signed Message (as this one) there are at least three links in each posting, Adressee Part, Contributor Part and Topic Tag. This idea was refuted with hefty emotions, suppressing to discuss its implications. The reason is obvious: Tagging such contributions this way, would have allowed, to relocate contributions freely over the Web, yet letting them find by Search Engines (I think these were the days of Alta Vista). Such a construct would have empowered the basic user too much .. in the earlier, rather autocratic and idolatry doomed WardsWiki with its bullies. Meanwhile, happily, times have changed and more democratic structures have evolved in the wiki-communities, so that we need not fear to openly discuss such sensible topics.

Readability aspect

Now to your readability aspect. I think the problem stems from our conditioned way to compulsively clicking on links. The idea is too new. I tell you, all authors will have to learn to practise a more userfriendly way to link and to give context to links. It is the context, the contributors provide, between links, and the creative selection, reflection and thinking about tag-combinations, where new ideas are born. I think, you could blame me more for my deficient language skills as an [][ESL] peer, but not so much for the social tagging idea (and actually you don't do that). There is a trade-off between plain language and link-rich language. Of course, you can read text faster, if there are no links in it. I did this here, for your convenience. Granted. But its (re-)use for multiple audiences is diminished. Let me apply the idea of this page to your comment: for all unlinked Wiki Words in your contribution, let me insert Google links. I do this for

Mark, do you allow your peers, inserting [][GoogleWikiTag]s into your postings, as I did tentatively and WikiBlogging? Otherwise your responding peers, who want to help reduce work, are forced to quote your text, together with enriched links and to comment, that they have inserted the links. The "[]" and "[x]"-markers are for [][AutoHotkey+Macro]s to emulate a Google Tag Wiki :FridemarPache

My readability opinion has nothing to do with clicking on the links. The value for WikiWords for me is that I can go to that page with some hope of adding to the conversation. But I assume you have heard all of that before. My head is spinning... so I will drift back into the woodwork and lurk some more. Best, MarkDilley

Mark, please let me correct our syntax error, setting the tagging options in your above contribution in such a way, that the idea comes clearer. With your Silent Agreement I correct the positions of the Link Markers in your above text, to give some explanations and answer your implicit question, why Wiki Tags and Wiki Tag Combinations are superior to Wiki Words. As long as wikizens collaborate in an isolated wiki, this old use form is ok. But hey, we are in a Global Village, where wikizens want to contribute in different wikis, all over the Web. That's exactly, where the idea of a Google Tag Wiki comes into play, or more general: the idea of Tag Wikis with a Google Tag Mode. Some 'heads are spinning ...', you are not alone, I am fascinated too. The idea evolves like an Interlaced Gif Picture, successively from blurry appearance to a crystal sharp one. For your convience and all the other lurking peers, who may be frustrated to be opposed to a new wiki concept, I temporarily use in this answer Pre Wiki Tags, that can later be easily transformed into valuable real Wiki Tags. With the current checked Wiki Tag Combination on this page, as could be seen on the author's Blog (if Mark had given his licet for WikiBlogging the whole page , a Google Wiki Tag Macro (Please dear peers, don't mess around with the handmade Wiki Tag Combination in the meantime) would extract the following demo search queries:

Some more GoogleTags for Testing

Query1: [MeatballWiki+GoogleTagWiki+PeaceOrganizing+OrganizedLabor+WikiIsSlow]

These currently overspecified Wiki Tag queries produces probably empty Google Search Result Lists. But if all these topics are unfolded here, they will produce a non-empty Google Search Result List. Now some other example queries:

This shows pages (not necessarily) external to MeatballWiki This shows pages (not necessarily) external to MeatballWiki, excluding the Google Tag Wiki concept This shows pages (not necessarily) external to MeatballWiki, excluding the Google Tag Wiki concept, Peace Organizing This shows pages (not necessarily) external to MeatballWiki, excluding the Google Tag Wiki concept, Peace Organizing, Organized Labor

You see, even a human - simulated Google Tag Wiki, can help to save unnecessary typing efforts and you can see that we are bootstrapping this complex concept, based on technology and human interaction. I hope, you don't let the author work in the unhappy situation, where he must collaborate with himself alone. :-)

Wiki Is Slow, yes but only, if we stick to the old concept of relatively isolated local wikis. A network of global Google Tag Wikis can very fast selfconnect all activities in the Web, who are looking for Social Collaboration in the sense of Social Bookmarking -> Social Annotation -> Social Collaboration. Here Social Collaboration means to the author, Creating Digital Goods And Services, that produce revenue for the collaborating peers.

 -- fridemar

Integrated OpenBusiness Opportunities for Peers

PS.: By the way, the author bought some minutes ago (after two days of waiting for a peer, honoring this idea, by collaborating, (e.g. expanding the idea, writing some UML diagrams or at least some macros''): GoogleTagWiki.com and .net, because he won't work for free. He asks you and all peers, who want to develop the idea, to buy the rest of the domains. This way we practise Open Business and not "only" discuss it.

Initial Author's Thank you

PS2: Dear peers. Thank you for not making the author's (above original) text a nice looking document, eliminating the strange, tentative Google links. Meanwhile after some time, the Google engine has indexed even such long links as [1], which encourages to incorporate long implicit Google queries in different wikis. New test: [Implicit+Google+Queries+in+Wikis],[ImplicitGoogleQueriesInWikis],ImplicitGoogleQueriesInWikis?, ImplicitLongTags?,ImplicitLongTagsHandledByGoogle?, ImplicitLongTagsAsAskingWikiPagesHandledByGoogle?. Benefit: opening a technique for accidental inter wiki collaboration [AccidentalInterWikiCollaboration+InterWikiCollaboration]. Once, we have a long TagCombination in the search field of Google, we can copy it, delete parts, query and repaste it for convenient social searching. -- FridemarPache

PS3: The author just experienced the interesting effect, that the short indexed reference [2] pointed to an entry in [AboutUs.org] (,which backlinks to Meatball,) whereas the long reference [GoogleTagWiki.com] will soon addionally and directly point to this Meatball page. -- FridemarPache, 15.Oct.2007, 2:34 UTC

Additional Considerations and Adaptions of the Concept

Fridemar, I have noticed http://aboutus.org/TiddlyWikiGoogleTagCombinations and this page now you have mentioned it via email. :)

I admit quite frankly to being rather confused and not clear on the value of the proposal.

The overall gist seems to be

I do agree with Mark on the readability. It relates to the attention grabbing nature of links at present. The jarring colour and that the way it flows in English is not smooth when having so many links. it has little to do with ESL issues in my opinion.

-- AaronPoeze

Ad Readability

Aaron, yes readability is important. This wish is now integrated into the current conceptual and programming teamwork at the newest page revision of <->[AboutusOrg:TiddlyWikiGoogleTagCombinations]. The original page here at Meatball was meant to provoke discussion. Meanwhile the concept is adapted in the following way:

In a GooglishTiddlyWiki there should be an option, to switch between classical view and Google-Option-Boxes-Enriched-View or even more simply a popup-view, that lists all Wiki Tags for multiple selection. These Tag Combinations can be sent to the Google search engine as complex queries (and even be stored as "visited" queries at the end of the "Tiddler"; later one could even implement a permanently stored Tag Combinations History)

Ad Externalizing Wiki Links

There are basically two risks:

The first appears to me rather improbable; however the second could be a challenge. If the wikizens of different wikis use appropriately long and descriptive Wiki Words, then these words will "stand out", enabling global IncidentalCollaboration, instead of the until now focussed local IncidentalCollaboration within the confines of isolated wikis. Test yourself the long wiki words on this page.

Ad Google Tags as Mini Memes

As an example you can take Google:StayPoor+Meme. (By the way: What is "a bad Austin powers joke" :-)

Ad Multiple Destinations from one Target

The Google Template in AboutusOrg allows to have such dual-use links: There is the standard intra wiki link and besides that a link to a Google query, which collects additional context.

Complex Google queries (hopefully) narrow the focus on pages accordingly.

Domains, that pointed or are pointing to this page

Domains, pointing to this page: [GoogleTagWiki.com],[GoogleTagWiki.net]

Wiki:GoogleTagWiki, Google:GoogleTagWiki




MeatballWiki | RecentChanges | Random Page | Indices | Categories
This page is read-only | View other revisions | Search MetaWiki