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I am Me. Sounds obvious doesn't it but it's amazing how many are not themselves.


Out of shape male living in Adelaide, Australia. This is the part where I add a picture of the kind one normally attaches to Chinese medicine packages or pasta sauce bottles. Did I mention devilishly attractive?

Some Thinking Patterns

Formal Education

Why I am Here

It's LionKimbro's fault. I'm merely an innocent bystander. I'm exploring ideas on online and offline communication. Nothing terribly concrete and I found [Saturday house] thanks to the joy that is Google. Found Saturday house's mailing list and there talked and Lion suggested I come here. Now having come here I am lost in the state of found.

Current Focus

How to 'make a living', caring for children, finding out who I am, online and offline communication, social connection, learning linux, spirituality.

Current Focus in MeatballWiki

Online and offline communication, discovering existing communication forms, making new ones, make some friends and/or contacts.

Online Social Tools


Oh a new page all for me. This is like the ego point in wiki right? The rest essentially egoless? I adore lists. the whole * thing is going to be overused.

Meatball has been an interesting source of information and a workable if low key community good for bouncing around concepts other places don't care for. I want to cover several broad things that have popped into my head in using MeatBall.


Aaron, welcome at meatball. Hope you find your way around, otherwise don't be shy to express your needs or questions. Suppose mb wiki could be made more userfriendly by adding structure and roadmaps, but who has the time... -- HelmutLeitner

Thanks. How would I express needs or questions? In here, the wiki or other people's pages? AaronPoeze

Depends on the situation. While talking, here probable. If you want to address a certain person, on her homepage. If you consider the question of lasting importance, create a page for it. If you are not sure about the place in the NameSpace, talking about it at the MessageBoard (BlackBoardPattern) may help. -- HelmutLeitner

Aaron... Welcome. Regarding "How...", feel free to experiment since I suspect various folks will step in and offer suggestions as you do so. In any event, Wiki conventions are that a HomePage is entirely yours to decree, so you can always just start here, on this page. -- HansWobbe

Specifically, AaronPoeze was writing a history of how communities formed through the decades, up to and including the present ZeitGeist? of material world gatherings such as BarCamp?s and CoWorking? enclaves. I remembered SunirShah thinking out loud in Twitter about such things, and thought, "Oh, he should write about that on MeatballWiki." -- LionKimbro

Yes Lion has it. Although I wouldn't call this history at all complete. Was more a matter of covering changes. Perhaps in understanding changes I can see a little into the future too. -- AaronPoeze

Welcome Aaron in the MeatballWiki ... I am glad about your fast visitor-wikizen transformation. -- FridemarPache

Thanks for the welcome. I guess I will dive in, make changes and see how it goes until I get slapped around a bit. Think I'll add my social networking tools here as well. I've just noticed putting the secret word in converts the preview to a final. -- AaronPoeze

Bienvenue Aaron. Interested to see your photos of straw-barn ? Cheers -- ChristopheDucamp

Sent them to your address in CV. -- AaronPoeze

Merci Aaron. Be sure, this will help in the future. -- ChristopheDucamp

Hello Aaron, as you appreciate social tools, here is a special one, that really rocks: TrailFire. You can even embed YouTube videos into the annotations. -- Fridemar

Have just added TrailFire which is fortunately not too intrusive and am trying it out. Let's see if I can find some annotations in MeatBall. The annotations seem more powerful than in Diigo. -- AaronPoeze

Aaron, I am fully aware and thank you for your input in OpenBusiness and related pages. So I make a memo to answer you there after some excursion into the use of the tools, we both appreciate: FireTrail and ScreenCapturing? software. As (interactively extendable) video ScreenCapturing? software, I am going to use the freeware Wink.exe from http://debugmode.com, which I suggest as a candidate for your "Online Social Tools". More on this topic in RecentChangesWikiTrail. -- FridemarPache

I will consider this tool. -- AaronPoeze

Thank you, Aaron, I know to appreciate this. Do you know a reliable free host for swf/wnk files. -- FridemarPache PS: Due to our dialogue, ExtremeOpenBusiness is already on the Google radar: Google:ExtremeOpenBusiness. This illustrates at the same time the importance of the ShortDigest.

Yes i tried to install wink in my linux (ubuntu) system directly and via repositories, however there is some kind of problem and my linux skills are too low to fix this without extending myself to others and research. I will do that later if required but I can also try installing it on windows and see it from there. The windows version is considerably further along. I would wish for a more active tool. I know of no free provider to host swf/wnk files. These files aren't too big are they? If I think of something I'll let you know. Oh that reminds me, Firefox 3 is out I need to install this on windows as well.

Google almost reads things as they are written! -- AaronPoeze

Indeed the swf files are incredibly tiny. This is one of the reasons why I am making a stab for it, having been asked so many people for a free reliable host of such files. -- FridemarPache PS: I just reserved for you a page on AboutusOrg, because there is a category:Aaron with numerous pages, but fortunately the most simple and brandable page, named Aaron, is not yet taken. I invite you to take the opportunity: <->[AboutusOrg:Aaron]. Wiki:DoTheSimplestThingThatCouldPossiblyWork is also a principle of Wiki:ExtremeProgramming, inherited by ExtremeOpenBusiness :-)

Ahh that's good then we can surely find some place to get these swf's hosted. I have joined AboutUs and thankyou for the reservation. I wonder if you can give advice on what to do with the Aaron Poeze page there. Perhaps redirect to Aaron? I heard a quote (perhaps from Einstein, perhaps not) that one could make things as simple as possible but no simpler. It's a good principle with wide implications and applications. -- AaronPoeze

Hi Aaron, I suggest as you suggested, to redirect it to the shorter name Aaron, because referencing you by the User:AaronPoeze is too clumsy for such a highly productive wikizen as you are :-). Now I have another suggestion: as you are a writer of "history on online communities", I would love to copy the content of ExtremeOpenBusiness (and all similar pages) to AboutusOrg. Reasons are given in <->[AboutusOrg:ReasonsExtremeOpenBusinessOnAboutus].

Credit is given to Meatball, which is the friendly birth-place and host of the initial historical event. We remain connected with Meatball. -- FridemarPache

Thanks for that, I will discover how to redirect. I do not object to the move. To me MeatBall's theme is online communities and AboutUs is on business. So for ExtremeOpenBusiness I see relevancy on both sides. You also show an impressive list of advantages. My knowledge of AboutUs is limited. Are they are open to these kinds of concepts we explore?

My only real concern would be the possible MeatBall community's feeling on the matter as a form of defacto fork. I lie in the position of active but not very knowledgeable yet and so will leave such issues, should they exist, to others. I think it's important we acknowledge MeatBall as the breeding ground for such creative ideas. I am still throwing out the net of online and offline communities and seeing how I can 'make a living'. I am not a StayPoor advocate in this context. To me OpenBusiness and ExtremeOpenBusiness are possibilities worth developing. But I am still exploring other possibilities.

We could also consider a longer step and host something ourselves. This seems to have several strong advantages and disadvantages. Hmm let me use my * addiction and see what shows up



Much of a muchness it seems. -- AaronPoeze

Aaron, I don't think of neither external redirection nor do I think to wipe out our initial contributions at Meatball. I think of copying our current contributions (excluding that one of the AnonymousDonor) and leaving the rest here, to be formed by all the prevailing forces (including our own), that are more in accordance with the current MissionStatement of Meatball.

As we are working on a field, that extends to "on business" and "online-communities" alike, we can place our future contributions in both communities and bilink them. This allows all participants an additional degree of freedom. I even can see a networked collaboration, distributed over many appropriate forums and wikis, bilinked with each other.

Yes Aaron, AboutusOrg is really open to our initiative, confirmed by numerous interactions with their staff on wiki pages and IRCs. The CEO of AboutusOrg RayKing appreciates the new ideas from me in the same way, as I appreciate his ideas and the ideas of their staff and active community members. We mutually follow us each other on [Twitter.com].

Concerning fork considerations, I don't see it as a fork; i see it as an expansion of the idea to different places, where the single components of the idea get community-specific nurturing. So all involved communities, i.e. (active) community members and (more or less passive) readers can profit on it.

Welcome "to exploring still other possibilities" and let's see, how we can integrate it.

Yes, in the long run, we could even establish a site, where there is the heart of ExtremeOpenBusiness. (Nevertheless I am open to even drop this centralistic dogma, in favor of permanent flexible distributed bilinked conceptual contributions, collaboration and other wealth [1] creating [inter-|trans]actions.

The listed cons and pros indicate to me that we are in resonance and can make the jump. Do you want to copy itself or do you allow me to copy? You have green light from me, now I ask only you for your explicit green light.

-- FridemarPache

You have my explicit green light. It is likely in the long run these inputs will remain bonded yet have a different flavour in accordance with the different missions of each wiki. It's good that we are in tune with the AboutUs community then. When I looked at the rough list of pros and cons it seemed a self website for ExtremeOpenBusiness was not a particularly good or bad idea at present and I feel we can run with AboutUs and delay that other decision.

Both centralised and diverse have their value and weak points. I suggest we go with what works for ExtremeOpenBusiness as far as we can determine it at the time we give it consideration. One thing that is starting to be more clear is an advantage to record what occurs so that it might be of values to others who, I hope, might take similar steps.

With your green light and mine I am taking liberty to copy information. I may also include some of the information here. I hope to rework it (my first reworking be gentle!) after it is in AboutUs but leave the discussion intact.

-- AaronPoeze

<->SuggestionSharedEcommerceSolution -- FridemarPache

Hey Aaron, great to see you in action to delete Spam. This is another proof, that vested wikizens are more motivated to defend wikis against Spam.

Meanwhile the test-button on http://aboutus.org/SharedEcommerce is ready for you to push. I am eagerly waiting for this historical event :-).

You can use the downloaded TiddlyWiki as a template to add your internal notes. But please don't forget to erase my IncomeFigures? and put your own there (explanation is in the TiddlyWiki).

You have (at least) two options:

In the latter case, I do the upload for you and somebody else has to test it. It must be somebody else, because Paypal doesn't allow account owners to download via their own pay-buttons (I could do it of course by adding another Paypal account, but that would diminish our initial synergies.).

Considering the free (fully functional) Demo, it would be helpful to have your own account, so that we can test all sorts of transfering tiny funds to each other and verify, if there are really no hidden transaction costs.

The basic shared E-Junkie account allows maximally 10 authors to share their ExtremeOpenBusiness Journals on one account. Each one can get their own author credit. The administrative workload (however) is burdoned on the primary account owner.

ExtremeOpenBusiness Pair Developing currently appears to me an acceptable solution. -- FridemarPache

Hi Aaron, as my Diigo messages to you don't show up, I leave you a copy here:

Aaron Poeze wrote: > How do I set up one of these journals?

Hi Aaron, I just hand sent you a message, but it doesnt show up. Safest kind of communication is Wiki. So I write it again.

Load the HTML file into your browser, doubleclick the entries (title, links), then edit, done. You can leave the structure intact , delete my IncomeFigures? put yours in, modify, save the whole page as html with your browser as ExtremeOpenBusinessJournal?-AaronPoeze-2008-007-xx


Hi Aaron, meanwhile the free demo period of E-Junkie is (nearly) over; so I stopped a potential automatic paid service. The transaction costs for small amounts by PayPal appear not fair to me. Imagine hard working wiki authors, earning perhaps 10000 US$, must pay 3500 US$ for automatic handling their transactions ... not very amusing. I thought 5 dollars a month would be a flat rate for E-Junkie. But it isn't. Now I found a publisher reseller [[Tradebit.com]], who cuts only 15% of the author's payments. So let's test this one ... ~~~~ FridemarPache

Hello Aaron, dear peers at Meatball:

at <-> [2] I left an illustration of a table with a One Time Buy Button to enable Social Domaining within the framework of ExtremeOpenBusiness. -- FridemarPache

Hi Aaron. I'm very interested in the OpenBusiness concepts you're working on with fridemar. I'm working on more-or-less the same thing, from a different angle -- I think TeaTime would be an excellent foundation for these kinds of projects, and I'm curious to know what you make of it. --NathanielThurston

Aaron, I noticed your photo isn't online here. If you'd like, I'd be happy to host one on my website so that you can post a link here. -- NathanielThurston

Sure I need the same image that exists on my bilinked personal page at AboutUs. -- AaronPoeze

GerĂ°u svo vel. ("There you go") -- Nathaniel Thurston

My thanks.

Hello Aaron, I have started to make my Internet transactions 2008 public as part of our ExtremeOpenBusiness project. I used the freely available GoogleSpreadsheets? in combination with OpenOfficeCalc? filled with the PayPal history. To protect the email privacy I replaced the email addresses by appropriate domain URLs. [Fridemar:PublicTransactions]. -- FridemarPache

Quite a few transaction there. Not really clear what they mean but it's good to see how OpenBusiness could work in documentation terms, including the practical issue of dealing with email addresses. -- AaronPoeze

Aaron, I have meanwhile streamlined the public transactions and the public portfolio and written to your talkpage in AboutusOrg a special (but generizable ) invitation. It is in the style of WorkingLikeAHoofSmith?. You can conveniently enter into edit-mode via [2009/04/14 Going Public in Aboutus.org].

Aaron and everybody else in Meatball, what about supporting my initiative, to make the use of ConceptMaps safe for collaboration. I took Aaron's concerns seriously and put some forum work in the new official forum of the provider: [Please clarify license. Collaboration inhibited by license?]. -- FridemarPache

Just a quick update. Have largely ignored MindMaps till recently I find I like them. They are, after all, much like lists but in a more doodly graphical way. However, I am very much frustrated with their inflexibility. Namely linking any node to any other node. Two parents seems impossible which is hilarious considering MeatSpace often has two parents. I finally get Fridemar's intense interest in collaborative mind maps. I wonder how well this Google Wave product will fill that gap. The whole web 2.0 thing needs to grow up to web 3.0 which to me means strong collaborative tools so people can fully work and play on the Net. Besides, it will give media another buzzword to abuse. -- AaronPoeze

Aaron, you implicitely suggested the wiki word MindMaps to be expanded in Meatball. I guess, there are some peers here, who could sum up their experiences with different mindmaps as CollaborationBoosters. We all may have some experience, HansWobbe with (the AjAx? application) TiddlyWiki and TheBrain, NathanielThurston and myself with ConceptMaps and there might be others. Besides that we should put Google:GoogleWonderWheel put into our collection of collaboration tools. -- FridemarPache

I want something like MindMaps to do materials flow processing, collaboration and personal organising. It is possible one of these tools does all well but I suspect it's mostly a case of finding the right one for the right job. -- AaronPoeze

Dual Editing with Yuuguu , Skype , Meatball and Sidewiki

We can dual edit a wiki similar to GoogleWave using YuuGuu?, which opens a new world of collaboration. It must be possible in a conference to do many inputs at the same time, especially if we use Skype concurrently. Now we are going to [SideWiki], resolving all CamelCase words in the GlobalGoogleNamespace?.

-- FridemarPache (and AaronPoeze who edited this text simultaneously :-)

I want to look at Google's SocialSearch? facility but despite following instructions it simply does not show up. Do any of you have this trouble or know of a solution? -- AaronPoeze

BiLinks: <=> <->



AaronPoeze -- Sun Nov 22 01:40:05 2009

Trying out this comment system.

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