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1.1. preamble

public communication, factored out from the Wiki Homepage [FridemarPache].

This is the first time in Web history of a (possibly) open transaction; based on

2. Table of Contents

1.1. preamble
2. Table of Contents
3. Content
4. Discussion
5. BiLinks...

3. Content

(Counterexamples welcome, with bilinks to join forces )

Here comes the public interaction, formatted with inserted leading names for the convenience of the readers. Additional real name persons are invited to expand the public dialogue to a public multilogue:

Hans: 2008-05-10 Fridemar...

My apologies, but I am traveling and only have intermittent access to the internet. As a result, I will not be able to deal with your proposal until late next week when I have completed this trip.

Regards, Hans


You are welcome Hans, as always. I thought something like that, therefore I have been remaining in the wait-state. Looking forward to your comeback, all the best to you and all the people around us. -- Fridemar

PS.: You might want to have a look at the community initiative [Aboutus.org:Category:DomainsForSaleFixPrice]

PPS.: Just started the page SocialDomaining


08-05-21 Fridemar...

Now that my travels are over, I am ready to start thinking about your proposal to "sell" the WikiBank domain name. While the price of $100US is quite acceptable (even just as a purely speculative proposal), I must admit that I have yet to be convinced that there is any real incremental value in a domain name by itself. I am, of course, quite aware of the facts that such names have been sold and that some of these transactions even involved amazingly large prices. However, based on my personal experience with domain names, I have assumed that these expenditures were justified as a form of "advertising" that it would be difficult to support with a real business case. That being said, I certainly am not suggesting I personally need a business case case to spend $100, so I would prefer to just spend such a small amount of money rather than spend any time thinking about it.

This brings me back to my main concern. I do not think that I could be an effective "owner" or "custodian" of the name, without actually doing something to "make the business happen". As I have stated in the past, I am quite interested in contributing to the evolution of financial services such as Banking (since I strongly believe that the current Banking monopolies are not at all in the best interests of either Borrows or Lenders, and I believe that much can be done to improve the traditional approaches).

Given that my original 'public' experiment with CommunityWikiBank failed to gain sufficient traction to amount to anything, I have re-directed my efforts to a "top-down" approach (as opposed to a "bottom-up" approach) and this is now consuming quite a bit of my time and energy. For this reason, I am unlikely to "do anything" with the WikiBank domain name should I buy it. Obviously, I am quite prepared to consider any comments you may make in response to this statement and I would even consider lending some assistance to any plans you might have that I may be able contribute to. I simply don't have sufficient motivation at this time to take a "lead" role.

Regards... Hans

Fridemar: Hans, I am very happy, that you didn't forget the public WikiBank.Biz process. You wrote:

 "so I would prefer to just spend such a small amount of money rather than spend any time thinking about it".
I appreciate your public engagement until now, including this public Wikimail. I know especially to appreciate it, since I had sent to your above given email-address the copy of my earlier Wikimails, which had bounced back, without reaching the addressee. So the WikiWay has again given the proof of its efficiency, to cultivate stable social relations in spite of technical problems.

You wrote:

 I do not think that I could be an effective "owner" or "custodian" of the name, without actually doing something to "make the business happen"
It is ok to me, if due to other commitments, you can't /won't currently play the rĂ´le of an "effective owner/custodian" Most important to me is, that we get movement into the CreatingAndSharingWealth process within the community of the 200 million OLPC-kids and beyond. (See my bilinked article there). If people ask me, "have you ever earned a single penny with that 'social' stuff", I could point to our first public transaction, earning an initial amount of US$. This would be then the 'Archimedian point' for further leveraging the process.

You wrote:

 Given that my original 'public' experiment with CommunityWikiBank failed to gain sufficient traction to amount to anything, ...
To take away from you the burden of putting my first 10% pledge of this transaction to the CommunityWikiBank, I am ready to do this myself in another PR-efficient public transaction.

If I understand you correctly, you are ready to the transaction. As I think, there is enough mutual trust, I can offer you at least five options:

(1) I transfer the domain to the registrar of your choice first (currently I have the registrar name.com, where you conveniently could open a free account, in case you have not chosen a registrar), then you pay per cheque to my address, which you can find in the Whois section of http://Aboutus.org/Wikibank.biz.

(2) You pay first and I transfer then (which is the common practise, if not using an escrow-service)

(3) If you are inclined to experience new revenue-sharing communities, we could also move our open negotiation into the [NamePros forum based community], powered by an internal currency DN$, to reduce transaction costs. We could leave additional (meta-) discussion here, with bilinks to the appropriate forum there.

(4) We could move our open discussion into another open business-friendly Wiki, e.g http://Aboutus.org, ...(put your target here).

(5) Option: for making your option here.

As you and I have invested thousands of hours into our community contributions and Web Identity, such a public transaction could very well illustrate the value of a RealName based online reputation to save transaction costs and efforts and to attract further business.

Perhaps you might wish to offer another option, so that we continue from there in a helpful way as a pilot transaction, that is more appropriate as a template for community newcomers to do OpenBusiness.

All the best to all of us -- fridemar

Hans 2008-05-22:


As previously stated, I am quite prepared to pay $100US for the domain.

Since I have no current plans to put it into production, I am even prepared to commit to reselling it to anyone that may want to make use of it. To avoid this becoming an unpleasant surprise to anyone, I will endeavor to conduct any such discussions in an Open environment (such as here at Meatball or perhaps at CommunityWiki.

As for the payment options you have proposed, I select (2) since it is most in keeping with what I think the "spirit" of your Open intentions is. I will make arrangements to have someone send you a cheque, likely early next week when I am next in a position to assign that task.

-- HansWobbe

Fridemar 2008-05-23 UTC Berlin time :

Hans ... thank you for helping to advance SocialDomaining to new, still unknown levels of open social collaboration, thus preparing a new style of value creation in Wiki communities and beyond. Meanwhile it is not enough to create cognitive and emotional values by and for members of online-communities; now comes the time, where in addition to this the members become aware, to help each other with openly CreatingAndSharingWealth in the economic sense. Although it is a tiny symbolic start yet, it has a great potential for all engaged online-community members. We know how many wikis and forums are GhostTowns, because the creative members there "diminished into thin air", since they have to do "serious work", i.e. paid work or build a traditional business or dwell in investment activities. Imagine future communities, who integrate all these components, allowing a Google:WikiWayOfLife.

I am glad to hear, that you are ready to resell it to someone, making (appropriate) use of it. If I can help you and the buyer (and so on) to make more of it, I am happy to do so. We all know the wisdom: "You can only prosper, if you help other people to prosper".

Currently I hold [WikiBank.Biz] at the registrar [name.com]. It is renewed until 2009-05-26 (expiration date). I recommend to open a free account there, because then I can transfer it to you in the shortest time. Besides that, this registrar is the only one, who has an affinity to Wiki culture, as you can see from [AboutusWiki:DomainRegistrarTransfer] and his ad-campaign there.

-- FridemarPache

PS.: Hans, do you allow me WikiBlogging our complete page. Although it is not necessary from a personal point of view to reciproque a WikiBlogging on your owned blog or domain-homepage (bound to a DomainBasedRealName, listed in WhoIs?), it would IMHO be a great help for future Wikizens to give such a use-case.

From Hans to Fridemar 2008-05-25 18:32 UTC

-- HansWobbe.

Fridemar: 2008-05-25 23:59 UTC Munich time Thank you Hans for allowing WikiBlogging and formatting. As soon as you feel fine after some CopyEdits? (formatting, typos), I'll put our paradigmatic open transaction into the SocialCommonWealth blog. -- FridemarPache

Fridemar: 2008-05-25 23:23 UTC Munich time Hello Hans, today I received your check of 100 US$ (hundred) and Monday I'll go to the local bank to cash it. Now I need your target registrar to transfer the domain into your property. What do you think about the registrar [name.com], who hosts my account with the bought domain WikiBank.Biz. This account with an Update Notice is made publicly viewable as a screen-snapshot at [AboutusOrg:FridemarOpenDomainPortfolioAtNameCom] Benefits:

partner with the concept) -- FridemarPache PS.: As promised, a pledge of 10 US$ (ten) goes to the CommunityWikiBank. Please advise me how to do that. -- fp


Regards -- HansWobbe

Fridemar: Thank you Hans, for signaling trust to my current registrar name.com. Normally each registrar sends expiration notices. We may ask him the details. Some registrars (like Godaddy.com) have as default "automatic renew", that can be opted out. To know it for sure, we can check ICANN rules or better (what is more wiki-like), we have the opportunity to ask him in Aboutus.org all these questions in public. Mutual advantage is, that Name.com currently presents his ad-campaign on the fifteen- or more million pages, that populate AboutusOrg. From his point, we are (the only) resonance in the community, that makes his ad anchored in the collective memory. From your point, you get ample exposition for WikiBank.biz, which I can amplify there as illustrative example. From my point I can demonstrate, how wiki-engagement of registrars get them new multiplier customers, when asking simple questions in public, e.g. how to transfer domains within name.com to other customers. I created a bilinked page there: [AboutusOrg:IntraRegistrarTransfer]. On this page we can leave a historical notice about our first completely transparent sale and transfer of Domains. -- FridemarPache PS: Hans, now I need your internal account ID per email, or per private message via Diigo.

4. Discussion

5. BiLinks...



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