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This MessageBoard follows the BlackBoardPattern. It can be used for general issues, questions, announcements and everything that has no obvious place to go. Newest entries always on top, below a date header. Oldest entries are deleted when the page gets too long.

Ce TableauMessages suit la FormeTableauNoir. Il peut s'utiliser pour des problèmes généraux, les questions, les annonces et tout ce qui ne trouve pas de place évidente sur ce wiki. Les billets les plus récents en haut, en dessous d'un titre date. Les billets les plus anciens sont effacés quand la page est trop longue.

1. 2012

1.1. July

Recently I fixed the display of the IP address of the editors of a page. -- MarkusLude

2. 2011

2.1. November

Today I fixed the problem with the links related to talk pages. I also tightened the spam check to fix a problem with the RecentVisitors page. If there are still problems, feel free to contact me -- MarkusLude

2.2. October

2.2.1. October 4

If the community has drifted away from MeatballWiki, whither has it drifted? I hope it's someplace more interesting than FaceBook or TwitteR. -- DavidMeyer

2.3. September

2.3.1. September 21

Is MeatballWiki in active use by anyone but spammers anymore? -- DavidMeyer

3. March 2009

No implementation of the UniversalEditButton?? http://universaleditbutton.org/Universal_Edit_Button --(anon)

4. December 2008

December 3

Hmm monit left a zombie process again yesterday. I restarted monit and the database. -- MarkusLude

December 1

Today the DNS server wasn't running any more. Monit somehow stopped running and left a zombie process. I rebooted the server. There are still problems resolving domains or IP adresses as you may notice on RecentChanges. All entries there are numerical. -- MarkusLude

5. September 2008

September 19

The database server for MeatBall wasn't runnning. It looks like it was killed due to running out of memory. Restarted it and the wiki seems to work again. -- MarkusLude

6. August 2008

August 15

The server once again ran out of memory. After a reboot all looks ok now. -- MarkusLude

7. June 2008

June 16

What is better to do with deadlinks? I found a porn link and deactivated it by the nowiki tag and am unsure on what to do. I have also found several other deadlinks. It is better to just remove the link and leave the word? -- AaronPoeze

What would you do with a porn link, if this wiki were your own?

Dead links (or broken links) can be commented with something like "(broken/dead on ...)". When someone revisits this a month later and its still dead, he can remove this savely. -- HelmutLeitner

Depends if it were deliberate or not. Likely in the context of that one I would kill the link and rethink the value of the text without the link. Ok I can try that. -- AaronPoeze

If you have lots of spare time you may look/search for the new location of the link. If it's only a spam link which may have last for far too long here, just remove it. -- MarkusLude

June 10

Looking for info on adding images. Whether to host on or offsite and how to functionally do it. I looked in QuestionsAndAnswers and HowTo to no avail. -- AaronPoeze

Try TextFormattingRules, "Inline Images". You will indeed need to host offsite, unless you get a sysadmin to upload your files to the server. -- ChrisPurcell
http://aboutus.org hosts images in a community-friendly manner, i.e. if you weave web communities (a core-value there), using images, I think this is fine. I suggest to use BiLinks and friendly constructive context on both sides of the bridge to accommodate to that. -- FridemarPache
Thankyou and so simple too. Ok I think I will host some from my own site and other more important ones if they came up by Fridemar's advice. --AaronPoeze

8. May 2008

May 28

I understand some of the reasons for SoftSecurity over HardSecurity, but JohnPhilip is being very helpful in making a case for FirmSecurity. -- PatrickAnderson

May 23

MeatballWiki was down again due to the server disk filling up. We should look for another MeatballServer. The current one often runs low on resources (memory, disk space) and because of the former one every now and then server processes get killed. -- MarkusLude

9. February 2008

February 22

MeatballWiki was down today. The postgresql process has gone again. I restarted postgresql and it seems to work again. -- MarkusLude

Looks like we run out of memory again at around -- MarkusLude

9.1. February 14, 2008

I have never known there to be a vandalism problem here until yesterday, when I was looking at RecentChanges. I saw that some vandal had replaced the page DeletedPage with "fethi -can hack" (have no idea who fethi is) with the edit summary "asdddddd", then a message in what appears to be Turkish that I can't understand.

"Asırlar oldu yurdum Anadolu Nasıl da şanlı kurdum Bozkurt Hatırlar oğlun korkma baba Geldiğimiz yer Dede Korkut Cihanın fethine soyundu atan 4 kıta soyundu yerde yatan Hilali cepheye doluydu düşman Dört bir yana ölüm duaydı satan"

And then, the vandal put in the website [www.biryildizdoguyor.com]. Today, another vandal showed up and put on replaced BulletinBoardSystem with "ciao a tutti mi dite una chat gratis?", which I think may be a good-faith attempt to try to chat, but it may be vandalism, and it was inconsiderate of me to just assume it was vandalism. Sorry, I should have AssumeGoodFaithed.

Has there ever been vandalism here before? Is this even vandalism? --JonasDaltonRand

Yes, this happened before. During last months it became seldom and the AntiSpam measures seem to work quite well here. -- MarkusLude

The Turkish text is not vandalism: the person who posted it is now making null edits (not really editing, but just pushing Edit this page --> save) and in the digest field puts lengthy explanations of what s/he did. About the other one, I don't know. --JonasDaltonRand

10. October 15, 2007

We will be meeting in #creole on Thursday, 18-Oct-2007 at 22:00 (CEST) to discuss the upcoming [Wikisym 2007 Workshop].

11. August 22, 2007

Hopefully my moving of "frontline philosophy" references to WebLogExamples is not considered rude. Rationale: MeatballWiki can't be a directory for weblogs, each on its own page, especially with topics unrelated to MeatBall. Dear visitor, if you want to discuss this, please use RecentVisitors as an entry point. -- HelmutLeitner

11.1. May

11.1.1. May 12

During the last days I noticed, that I have always to enter my UserName when editing a page. Is this normal or maybe a local cookie problem? This behaviour could be around some time longer, I just noticed it in the past few days. -- MarkusLude

11.2. February

11.2.1. February 13

Just when things were working, the ISP, http://www.vpscolo.com decided that they would downgrade PostgresQL? once again and thus hose MeatballWiki yet again in one weekend. I am incredibly angry. -- SunirShah

I have manually started postgres. I can't seem to get it to start when the system reboots. -- SunirShah

11.2.2. February 12

Another little misunderstanding today ("please install mod_perl" became "please hose Perl"). Ah, what fun. -- ChrisPurcell

Actually, I didn't ask them to install mod_perl. I asked them what would it take to install mod_perl. I wouldn't authorize changes to the web server unless I know what the impact would be. I did make a mistake in authorizing an upgrade to PHP5. I forgot PHP is built into Apache. By the way, the reason why they keep downgrading PostgresQL? is that cPanel requires PostgresQL? 7.3, and they use cPanel to do the migrations, so they first downgrade Postgres and then make the change, without questioning why we had Postgres 8.1. -- SunirShah

11.2.3. February 11

Unfortunately, due to a misunderstanding between myself and our hosts (I wrote "please upgrade PHP to support PostgreSQL?", they read "please downgrade PostgreSQL? to an earlier version and hose our website"), MeatballWiki got knocked down for a few days. My apologies for how long it took me to get it back up. -- ChrisPurcell

12. 2006

12.1. December

12.1.1. December 7

Hi, I keep getting Edit Conflicts on my own page DaveGoodman - I appear to be the only one editing. I really want to start putting stuff on there, but I can't figure out what's causing this. -- DaveGoodman

I have the same problem too -- FridemarPache

Okaysie, that should be fixed also. -- ChrisPurcell

Thanks Chris, that's awesome -- DaveGoodman

12.1.2. December 4

Today I tried to revert InterMapTxt. First I got an EditConflict, but I can't see the page listed on RecentChanges during the last few minutes. On a second try I now get the message You appear to be posting with a non-conforming robot. If this is not the case, please contact an admin for help.. I simply use firefox. Are there any AntiSpam measures running wild? --MarkusLude

That was probably Sunir's new EditHash gone a bit haywire. It's all working for me right now, though, so presumably it got fixed ;) -- ChrisPurcell

Yeah, there are some work flows where it doesn't do what you expect, but require more coding effort. It's also possible you somehow loaded a cached version of the edit page and thus got the old form. -- SunirShah

Okay, this just hit me too. When editing old revisions, we need to hash the current revision; also, we need to add the edit hash to the "Edit conflict detected" form. It can't be a caching problem because it's happening on POST.

I've now gone ahead and (I believe) fixed the problem. -- ChrisPurcell

12.2. November

12.2.1. November 30

Someone edited InterMapTxt today. Only some words were displayed when I viewed the page, the usual header/footer was missing. Strange. Any suggestions what might have gone wrong? --MarkusLude

Maybe the connection timed out? -- SunirShah

Then I would expect partial HTML code, but not simply a single text sentence without any html markup. Hmm.

12.2.2. November 23

We've now adopted two new anti-spam strategies, as discussed on MeatballAntiSpam. Firstly, posts adding URLs to a page must pass a basic HumanVerification test. Secondly, any posts lacking a digest gets bounced back to the editor. Together, these (tentatively) seem to be holding back the waves of automated spam we've been encountering. As ever, our HoneyPot strategy should allow us to tackle the non-automated spam as and when it happens. Let's hope our new SoftSecurity bulwarks hold!

12.2.3. November 15

I copied the following exchange to this page because I believe there is a significant danger of this happening unless some action is taken. -- HansWobbe

Hello Sunir,

please allow links to dedicated WikiBlogging. This opens complete new possibilities for friendly and constructive WikiWeaving and WebWeaving?. Meatball has treasures of community wisdom in it and a lot of collaborating friends. Even the WikiPedia (in its baby-phase) got advise here. It would be a pity, if this wiki would degenerate into a GhostTown, where the spambots take over (and destroy their own ground in the end). You know the wo/manhours that are invested in this marvel wiki! -- FridemarPache

Sure, of course. Yeah, there is a strong inverse correlation between the amount of spam and the amount of ham. Since Akismet and the OpenProxy detector were vetoed, I'm out of ideas that fit the amount of time & energy I have. -- SunirShah

If the problem has to wait for me to take care of it, it's not going to get done because I have higher priorities in my life right now. The MeatballBoard committees are key. I don't really know what to do right now. Perhaps other people have more energy and ideas. -- SunirShah

See MeatballAntiSpam for related information. (and comments about the much appreciated patch Sunir has applied.)

12.3. October

12.3.1. October 18

I tried to post to OurCultureWikiQuestionnaire? but it was understood as spam and I was sent here. -- AndriusKulikauskas

Oh dear. Anyone else had this problem? -- ChrisPurcell

12.3.2. October 2

Is the Subversion repository (mentioned below and on MeatballServerLayout) available to the public? I'd very much like to examine the part of the MeatballScript? that deals with OpenProxy detection. (Is it the same code linked by Sunir from OpenProxy?) -- EarleMartin

The Subversion repository is not a PublicScript yet, but it will be when we figure out how to do it. The OpenProxy code is 80% the same, modulo bits that connect to the database to store information. The real key is how it is connected to the script. Currently it is disabled. -- SunirShah

12.3.3. October 1

A quick look at our [list of blocked edits] shows that our spam filter is blocking dozens of spam edits per day quite frequently. (It also suggests that weekends are slow days.) Hurrah! -- ChrisPurcell

12.4. September

12.4.1. September 27

We've finally moved over to [Subversion] for version-controlling the MB script. Also, I've added a little hack to the engine in an attempt to reject some of these guestbook-spamming 'bots; we'll have to see how well that works. -- ChrisPurcell

12.5. June

12.5.1. June 2

I've made some pretty radical changes to the MeatballWiki database backend, mostly to solve performance issues we've been having. However, the changes are radical enough to have potentially broken any aspect of MB you can think of. I'm thinking especially of multilingual support here. If people could test that some of the more bizarre pages still work, and that searches still work, that would be massively handy. -- ChrisPurcell

12.6. May

12.6.1. May 7

Until we figure out an OpenProxy solution, I've taken to using an admin approach to reverting spam: namely, deleting the spam revisions straight out of the database. Saves me a lot of time. This does, however, mean that after a large burst of spam you may find your RecentChanges/AJAX page gets out-of-sync with the feed, as it was built on the assumption that such mass disappearances of pages couldn't happen. Sorry! -- ChrisPurcell

12.7. April

12.7.1. April 16

blogspot dot com has been banned for link-spam. The domain-banning system is predicated on hitting the spammers where it hurts — each domain costs money, so banning one is not merely a futile gesture — and it appears to be far too easy to create a new blogspot account and use it to start a link-spam farm. Unless and until they fix that, we have to unilaterally fix it at our end, alas.

12.7.2. April 10

There's something that's been quietly yet persistently bothering me ever since I first came to MeatballWiki: the way we pluralize page names ending in "y". For example, "MeatballWiki explores OnlineCommunitys [sic]." More examples on SnowCrash, DemaGogue, WikiCommunityList. I intend to set up plural redirects for these pages (OnlineCommunities, etc). Is there any reason why this is a bad idea? -- StephenGilbert

Yes, we're too lazy. Oh, wait... No, it's a great idea :) -- ChrisPurcell

12.7.3. April 5

Large change this time: I've changed the MeatballDatabaseRelations to the simpler, single-table design proposed earlier. The main reason is performance: one can then optimize the browse command by adding an index. Hopefully, the site will seem a little snappier now; one can but hope. -- ChrisPurcell

12.7.4. April 4

Small change this time: the history page now displays a small loading animation () if it hasn't yet downloaded the current diff, instead of continuing to show the previous diff. This works better when one's connection to MB is not as snappy as one would like ;) -- ChrisPurcell

12.8. March

12.8.1. March 29

I've finally braved switching in a new MB core script, using Perl's UTF-8 capabilities. Proper locale sorting, yay! This approach needed some hacking to work with MySQL?.pm and CGI.pm — whereas the previous version hacked the regular expressions and things instead — so I've left up [the previous version] in case there's a problem. -- ChrisPurcell

12.8.2. March 28

I hope this means an end to the CorruptedWindowsEntities problem. Everyone cross your fingers. PeerReview of the fixed pages would be most valuable. (Please don't ask me exactly where the corruption occurred. Somewhere in the brief sequence of MySQL? export–iconv conversion–MySQL? import, a whole bunch of characters got corrupted and stored as illegal UTF-8. Funky.)

There may still be problems with the manual fixes already made; I will check out this possibility. Tomorrow. -- ChrisPurcell

Other entry moved to MeatballWikiSuggestions.

12.8.3. March 27

Could everyone please stop fixing character entities! You may well be leaving behind illegal UTF-8 entities. I am on the case, but as an admin. It'll take a while, because iconv actually lost the character information, not just corrupted it. Yaargh. -- ChrisPurcell

12.9. February

12.9.1. February 24

What ever happened to WelcomeWikipedians?? Was it deleted? It was a page I threw together quickly when we were being flooded with Wikipedia-specific issues. I thought I would refactor it into a MeatballForWikipedians guide, similiar to those linked on the front page, but I no longer have a copy. Maybe I'll start from scratch... -- StephenGilbert

I can't find a page similar to that in the entire RecentChanges history, sorry. Are you sure this wasn't on C2, maybe? -- ChrisPurcell

I am very sure it was here, as I don't normally edit C2, and the page was inspired by a discussion that's still on my personal page here. Odd. Does anyone else remember contributing to the page (Helmut? Sunir?), or have I lost my mind? Oh well, I'll start a new one. -- StephenGilbert

Ah! The [backlinks] for WelcomeWikipedians? proves my sanity. I remember MartinHarper working on the page as well, and he linked to it whenever a Wikipedian dropped by. -- StephenGilbert

Well, sorry for misleading you there. The old PageDeletion algorithm must've been a lot more aggressive than I realized. (My recoding for MySQL? doesn't delete anything from the rc log anymore.) -- ChrisPurcell

12.9.2. February 19

The move to UTF-8 unfortunately broke pages and links with non-ASCII characters in their titles. My apologies, and thanks to Christophe for patience during the time it took to fix the problem.

The conclusion: Perl is not UTF-8 compatible, not without an incredible amount of pointless overhead. The solution I've chosen is something of a hack, albeit one that shouldn't break: namely, the script thinks its using latin1 throughout, but the regular expressions actually match UTF-8. So, for instance, $UpperLetter? = "(?:[A-Z]|\xc3[\x80-\x9e])". Yuck.

For the benefit of other wikis that do not use UTF-8 yet, it is still possible to link to MB with a latin1 character encoding. That means both [1] (latin1) and [2] (UTF-8) link to LangueFrançaise. Eventually, these latin1 entry-points will be implemented as redirects. -- ChrisPurcell

12.9.3. February 18

Empowered by the changed to the MB backbone, I've overhauled action=history again. It now:

Hope people approve.

I've also completed the move to UTF-8, a relatively simple process one I realised MySQL? couldn't do it internally, and I had to bring iconv into the solution. -- ChrisPurcell

12.9.4. February 16

Just made two minor fixes to the engine. First, the engine now uniformly emits the correct charset (ISO-8859-1, but we are planning on moving to UTF-8 shortly), which may fix some Javascript bugs that've been cropping up here and there. Second, I've fixed a problem with the diff code that was causing the occasional core-dump.

[For those curious, the change was /\n((<.*\n)+)/ to /\n((?><.*\n)+)/, where (?>...) is one of those strange Perl-only patterns that means "don't retry this pattern if subsequent ones fail", suggesting the core-dump was the result of an infinite loop in the pattern-matcher somehow. Don't ask me how I guessed this one. "Randomly shooting in the dark" seems to cover it.]

Later And now I've moved the engine to a MySQL backend, as per the MeatballRoadmap?. -- ChrisPurcell

12.10. January

12.10.1. January 31

I've now added a check-box on RecentChanges to disable Javascript client-side filtering. If you are experiencing long-term problems with the AsynchronousAutorefresh code, this is the best way of disabling it permanently. All the traditional filtering options should still be available. This modification may accidentally disable AA on your machine; if so, it can be reenabled with the same check-box. Please let me know if this happens to you, as it may be symptomatic of a wider problem. -- ChrisPurcell

12.10.2. January 28

MeatballWiki now has an anti-spam HoneyPot page, and the first step in a low-latency anti-spam P2P network. See the HoneyPot page for more.

In a few days, I will assume dictatorial control of MB engine changes as per ConsensusGroup's suggested protocol; anyone wanting to reestablish a "beta-site" PeerReview period can just ask at any time. Not doing betas saves me a bit of hassle.

12.10.3. January 17

Am I the only active member of the future-MeatballWiki-engine-changes ConsensusGroup? I'm not getting any PeerReview on things (most recently, the public UserFreeServer beta) until after they are added to the mainstream engine. If nobody is interested in reviewing future engine developments - which I can quite understand, this being the MeatBall community, not the MeatballWiki community - then I propose cutting out the PeerReview cycles I've been imposing on myself, and moving changes straight into the engine. The community will of course still have veto on the changes after the fact, I just won't advertise changes two weeks before actually doing them. -- ChrisPurcell

Invert the process. Put the changes in the mainline script, but copy the older version to mb2 so people can compare or have another place to go. For the record, I'm still heads down on papers for one more week, and then I am free. -- SunirShah

Are you interested in future-changeRequests? If so there are a couple that I would at least like to discuss (perhaps as a precursor to even suggesting them in this site. -- HansWobbe

Sure, go for it. I don't promise to implement them, mind ;) -- ChrisPurcell

Don't worry about not implementing anything I ask may ask for. Being a modern "employer", I very used to not getting what I want, even when I pay for it. ;) I am planning to lobby for some changes that I think will support TransClusion, and immediately encountered my first obstacle. Since I think I will have a lot that I want to post on this topic, I want to put it somewhere that is at least isolated enough that it won't interfer with other content. The ConsensusGroup page didn't seem to be that, and I'm not sure adding it to the TransClusion page is best either. Do you have any suggestions of preferences? -- HansWobbe

12.10.4. January 15

I've enabled UserFreeServer, and am soliciting opinions on adding a link-spam HoneyPot to MB. Please comment on the relevant page. -- ChrisPurcell

13. 2005

13.1. December

13.1.1. December 22


13.1.2. December 19

Those of you with Safari 2 may have noticed an RSS link on the right of the RecentChanges URL. That's my doing. I don't know if <link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml"> is used by any other browsers, or if I add an alternative - anyone know? -- ChrisPurcell

13.2. November

13.2.1. November 12

RichardTallent?, I am curious what StartingPoints is missing. If you could put your notes there, we could start building something. --MarkDilley

13.2.2. November 7

I'm developing an intranet wiki system and came to this web site to find some general wiki patterns, etc. to learn from and gain inspiration, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to get around this thing. The HomePage, TableOfContents, etc. are all too "meta" and provide no topical index to the actual patterns and practices. RecentPages doesn't get me to anything useful either. Nagivation through the wiki should not require knowing the SecretPassages? (antipattern, just made that up, but again can't find a decent spot to put it). -- RichardTallent?

Richard, perhaps we need a RoadmapOfRoadmaps? or MasterRoadmap?. Until then look into CategoryRoadmap (backlink), perhaps WikiPatternLanguage and upcoming WikiPractices. Remember that no-one gets paid and we do not feel obliged to satisfy the silent reader, although we surely want to have attractive content to attract participants. Perhaps the chaos has a positive side: to provoke the lurkers to come out. I think it is a kind of paradoxical system. -- HelmutLeitner

13.3. October

13.3.1. October 22

Thanks to a repeat of the CoolHostCase, I've blocked one domain fragment from being posted to any page, as well as a singular text phrase used in the attack. Most distressingly, I made the block silent for now, to increase its chance of being effective. I hope nobody gets caught on it :/ Roll on domain bans. -- ChrisPurcell

13.3.2. October 20

I've brought AsynchronousAutorefresh to the main MB script. Please put any discussion, suggestions or praise on that page. -- ChrisPurcell

13.4. August

13.4.1. August 24

Quick update: I've fixed the Barnes and Noble links on automatic ISBN links. (They moved it to search.barnesandnoble.com, the cruel people.) -- ChrisPurcell

13.4.2. August 18

Should have mentioned this when I did it (a day or two ago), but it slipped my mind. Whoops. Anyway, as suggested on WikiNow, pages no longer display their last edited date. This is mainly to prompt discussion about something better to eventually put there. -- ChrisPurcell

13.4.3. August 15

Is there a problem with the server, or the local DNS? usemod.com is very patchy. -- ChrisPurcell

The VPS colo keeps running out of memory. -- SunirShah

Only CliffordAdams has the root password, so we're kind of stuck until he gets back online. --ss

13.4.4. Earlier in August

We are now running 3 portscans on every IP. While if one OpenProxy gets through once, it is unlikely it will get through a second or third time. Meanwhile, AlexSchroeder is working beside me here in Frankfurt to MoveMeatballWikiToOddMuse?. -- SunirShah

Ok, there was a bug with the open proxy detector, which is why saves were so slow.' I've fixed it, but have had to reset the whitelist again. -- SunirShah

We received 48 attacks on August 10 alone. -- SunirShah

13.5. June

13.5.1. June 22

My performance at joining StadtwikiKarlsruhe was a shame. Over the course of almost three years I've tried to join wikis to the TourBus as fast as possible, typically in a few days: making contact, checking the TBS pages, explaining if necessary, looking for good places to join, suggesting and linking the pages, updating the TourBus Map. This is fun and rewarding most of the time. It's very direct building of relationships and social structure. This time it took me 2-3 weeks and I had to be reminded. Not because I missed some messages or hadn't the time - I felt just empty, tired and worn-out with respect to the TourBus. I don't know why. It's time to retire. A new mind and new energy is needed. Any idea, who could do it and how to hand this job over? Or should we assume that the TourBus is grown-up and can care for itself? -- HelmutLeitner

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