Ce TableauMessages suit la FormeTableauNoir. Il peut s'utiliser pour des problèmes généraux, les questions, les annonces et tout ce qui ne trouve pas de place évidente sur ce wiki. Les billets les plus récents en haut, en dessous d'un titre date. Les billets les plus anciens sont effacés quand la page est trop longue.
Is MeatballWiki in active use by anyone but spammers anymore? -- DavidMeyer
Looks like we run out of memory again at around -- MarkusLude
And then, the vandal put in the website [www.biryildizdoguyor.com]. Today, another vandal showed up and put on replaced BulletinBoardSystem with "ciao a tutti mi dite una chat gratis?", which I think may be a good-faith attempt to try to chat, but it may be vandalism, and it was inconsiderate of me to just assume it was vandalism. Sorry, I should have AssumeGoodFaithed.
Has there ever been vandalism here before? Is this even vandalism? --JonasDaltonRand
Yes, this happened before. During last months it became seldom and the AntiSpam measures seem to work quite well here. -- MarkusLude
The Turkish text is not vandalism: the person who posted it is now making null edits (not really editing, but just pushing Edit this page --> save) and in the digest field puts lengthy explanations of what s/he did. About the other one, I don't know. --JonasDaltonRand
Hopefully my moving of "frontline philosophy" references to WebLogExamples is not considered rude. Rationale: MeatballWiki can't be a directory for weblogs, each on its own page, especially with topics unrelated to MeatBall. Dear visitor, if you want to discuss this, please use RecentVisitors as an entry point. -- HelmutLeitner
During the last days I noticed, that I have always to enter my UserName when editing a page. Is this normal or maybe a local cookie problem? This behaviour could be around some time longer, I just noticed it in the past few days. -- MarkusLude
Just when things were working, the ISP, http://www.vpscolo.com decided that they would downgrade PostgresQL? once again and thus hose MeatballWiki yet again in one weekend. I am incredibly angry. -- SunirShah
I have manually started postgres. I can't seem to get it to start when the system reboots. -- SunirShah
Another little misunderstanding today ("please install mod_perl" became "please hose Perl"). Ah, what fun. -- ChrisPurcell
Actually, I didn't ask them to install mod_perl. I asked them what would it take to install mod_perl. I wouldn't authorize changes to the web server unless I know what the impact would be. I did make a mistake in authorizing an upgrade to PHP5. I forgot PHP is built into Apache. By the way, the reason why they keep downgrading PostgresQL? is that cPanel requires PostgresQL? 7.3, and they use cPanel to do the migrations, so they first downgrade Postgres and then make the change, without questioning why we had Postgres 8.1. -- SunirShah
Unfortunately, due to a misunderstanding between myself and our hosts (I wrote "please upgrade PHP to support PostgreSQL?", they read "please downgrade PostgreSQL? to an earlier version and hose our website"), MeatballWiki got knocked down for a few days. My apologies for how long it took me to get it back up. -- ChrisPurcell
Hi, I keep getting Edit Conflicts on my own page DaveGoodman - I appear to be the only one editing. I really want to start putting stuff on there, but I can't figure out what's causing this. -- DaveGoodman
Okaysie, that should be fixed also. -- ChrisPurcell
Thanks Chris, that's awesome -- DaveGoodman
Yeah, there are some work flows where it doesn't do what you expect, but require more coding effort. It's also possible you somehow loaded a cached version of the edit page and thus got the old form. -- SunirShah
Someone edited InterMapTxt today. Only some words were displayed when I viewed the page, the usual header/footer was missing. Strange. Any suggestions what might have gone wrong? --MarkusLude
Maybe the connection timed out? -- SunirShah
Then I would expect partial HTML code, but not simply a single text sentence without any html markup. Hmm.
We've now adopted two new anti-spam strategies, as discussed on MeatballAntiSpam. Firstly, posts adding URLs to a page must pass a basic HumanVerification test. Secondly, any posts lacking a digest gets bounced back to the editor. Together, these (tentatively) seem to be holding back the waves of automated spam we've been encountering. As ever, our HoneyPot strategy should allow us to tackle the non-automated spam as and when it happens. Let's hope our new SoftSecurity bulwarks hold!
I copied the following exchange to this page because I believe there is a significant danger of this happening unless some action is taken. -- HansWobbe
please allow links to dedicated WikiBlogging. This opens complete new possibilities for friendly and constructive WikiWeaving and WebWeaving?. Meatball has treasures of community wisdom in it and a lot of collaborating friends. Even the WikiPedia (in its baby-phase) got advise here. It would be a pity, if this wiki would degenerate into a GhostTown, where the spambots take over (and destroy their own ground in the end). You know the wo/manhours that are invested in this marvel wiki! -- FridemarPache
Sure, of course. Yeah, there is a strong inverse correlation between the amount of spam and the amount of ham. Since Akismet and the OpenProxy detector were vetoed, I'm out of ideas that fit the amount of time & energy I have. -- SunirShah
If the problem has to wait for me to take care of it, it's not going to get done because I have higher priorities in my life right now. The MeatballBoard committees are key. I don't really know what to do right now. Perhaps other people have more energy and ideas. -- SunirShah
See MeatballAntiSpam for related information. (and comments about the much appreciated patch Sunir has applied.)
I tried to post to OurCultureWikiQuestionnaire? but it was understood as spam and I was sent here. -- AndriusKulikauskas
Is the Subversion repository (mentioned below and on MeatballServerLayout) available to the public? I'd very much like to examine the part of the MeatballScript? that deals with OpenProxy detection. (Is it the same code linked by Sunir from OpenProxy?) -- EarleMartin
The Subversion repository is not a PublicScript yet, but it will be when we figure out how to do it. The OpenProxy code is 80% the same, modulo bits that connect to the database to store information. The real key is how it is connected to the script. Currently it is disabled. -- SunirShah
A quick look at our [list of blocked edits] shows that our spam filter is blocking dozens of spam edits per day quite frequently. (It also suggests that weekends are slow days.) Hurrah! -- ChrisPurcell
We've finally moved over to [Subversion] for version-controlling the MB script. Also, I've added a little hack to the engine in an attempt to reject some of these guestbook-spamming 'bots; we'll have to see how well that works. -- ChrisPurcell
I've made some pretty radical changes to the MeatballWiki database backend, mostly to solve performance issues we've been having. However, the changes are radical enough to have potentially broken any aspect of MB you can think of. I'm thinking especially of multilingual support here. If people could test that some of the more bizarre pages still work, and that searches still work, that would be massively handy. -- ChrisPurcell
Until we figure out an OpenProxy solution, I've taken to using an admin approach to reverting spam: namely, deleting the spam revisions straight out of the database. Saves me a lot of time. This does, however, mean that after a large burst of spam you may find your RecentChanges/AJAX page gets out-of-sync with the feed, as it was built on the assumption that such mass disappearances of pages couldn't happen. Sorry! -- ChrisPurcell
blogspot dot com has been banned for link-spam. The domain-banning system is predicated on hitting the spammers where it hurts — each domain costs money, so banning one is not merely a futile gesture — and it appears to be far too easy to create a new blogspot account and use it to start a link-spam farm. Unless and until they fix that, we have to unilaterally fix it at our end, alas.
There's something that's been quietly yet persistently bothering me ever since I first came to MeatballWiki: the way we pluralize page names ending in "y". For example, "MeatballWiki explores OnlineCommunitys [sic]." More examples on SnowCrash, DemaGogue, WikiCommunityList. I intend to set up plural redirects for these pages (OnlineCommunities, etc). Is there any reason why this is a bad idea? -- StephenGilbert
Large change this time: I've changed the MeatballDatabaseRelations to the simpler, single-table design proposed earlier. The main reason is performance: one can then optimize the browse command by adding an index. Hopefully, the site will seem a little snappier now; one can but hope. -- ChrisPurcell
Small change this time: the history page now displays a small loading animation () if it hasn't yet downloaded the current diff, instead of continuing to show the previous diff. This works better when one's connection to MB is not as snappy as one would like ;) -- ChrisPurcell
I've finally braved switching in a new MB core script, using Perl's UTF-8 capabilities. Proper locale sorting, yay! This approach needed some hacking to work with MySQL?.pm and CGI.pm — whereas the previous version hacked the regular expressions and things instead — so I've left up [the previous version] in case there's a problem. -- ChrisPurcell
I hope this means an end to the CorruptedWindowsEntities problem. Everyone cross your fingers. PeerReview of the fixed pages would be most valuable. (Please don't ask me exactly where the corruption occurred. Somewhere in the brief sequence of MySQL? export–iconv conversion–MySQL? import, a whole bunch of characters got corrupted and stored as illegal UTF-8. Funky.)
There may still be problems with the manual fixes already made; I will check out this possibility. Tomorrow. -- ChrisPurcell
Other entry moved to MeatballWikiSuggestions.
Could everyone please stop fixing character entities! You may well be leaving behind illegal UTF-8 entities. I am on the case, but as an admin. It'll take a while, because iconv actually lost the character information, not just corrupted it. Yaargh. -- ChrisPurcell
What ever happened to WelcomeWikipedians?? Was it deleted? It was a page I threw together quickly when we were being flooded with Wikipedia-specific issues. I thought I would refactor it into a MeatballForWikipedians guide, similiar to those linked on the front page, but I no longer have a copy. Maybe I'll start from scratch... -- StephenGilbert
I am very sure it was here, as I don't normally edit C2, and the page was inspired by a discussion that's still on my personal page here. Odd. Does anyone else remember contributing to the page (Helmut? Sunir?), or have I lost my mind? Oh well, I'll start a new one. -- StephenGilbert
Ah! The [backlinks] for WelcomeWikipedians? proves my sanity. I remember MartinHarper working on the page as well, and he linked to it whenever a Wikipedian dropped by. -- StephenGilbert
The move to UTF-8 unfortunately broke pages and links with non-ASCII characters in their titles. My apologies, and thanks to Christophe for patience during the time it took to fix the problem.
The conclusion: Perl is not UTF-8 compatible, not without an incredible amount of pointless overhead. The solution I've chosen is something of a hack, albeit one that shouldn't break: namely, the script thinks its using latin1 throughout, but the regular expressions actually match UTF-8. So, for instance, $UpperLetter? = "(?:[A-Z]|\xc3[\x80-\x9e])". Yuck.
For the benefit of other wikis that do not use UTF-8 yet, it is still possible to link to MB with a latin1 character encoding. That means both  (latin1) and  (UTF-8) link to LangueFrançaise. Eventually, these latin1 entry-points will be implemented as redirects. -- ChrisPurcell
Empowered by the changed to the MB backbone, I've overhauled action=history again. It now:
Hope people approve.
I've also completed the move to UTF-8, a relatively simple process one I realised MySQL? couldn't do it internally, and I had to bring iconv into the solution. -- ChrisPurcell
[For those curious, the change was /\n((<.*\n)+)/ to /\n((?><.*\n)+)/, where (?>...) is one of those strange Perl-only patterns that means "don't retry this pattern if subsequent ones fail", suggesting the core-dump was the result of an infinite loop in the pattern-matcher somehow. Don't ask me how I guessed this one. "Randomly shooting in the dark" seems to cover it.]
Later And now I've moved the engine to a MySQL backend, as per the MeatballRoadmap?. -- ChrisPurcell
MeatballWiki now has an anti-spam HoneyPot page, and the first step in a low-latency anti-spam P2P network. See the HoneyPot page for more.
In a few days, I will assume dictatorial control of MB engine changes as per ConsensusGroup's suggested protocol; anyone wanting to reestablish a "beta-site" PeerReview period can just ask at any time. Not doing betas saves me a bit of hassle.
Am I the only active member of the future-MeatballWiki-engine-changes ConsensusGroup? I'm not getting any PeerReview on things (most recently, the public UserFreeServer beta) until after they are added to the mainstream engine. If nobody is interested in reviewing future engine developments - which I can quite understand, this being the MeatBall community, not the MeatballWiki community - then I propose cutting out the PeerReview cycles I've been imposing on myself, and moving changes straight into the engine. The community will of course still have veto on the changes after the fact, I just won't advertise changes two weeks before actually doing them. -- ChrisPurcell
Are you interested in future-changeRequests? If so there are a couple that I would at least like to discuss (perhaps as a precursor to even suggesting them in this site. -- HansWobbe
I've enabled UserFreeServer, and am soliciting opinions on adding a link-spam HoneyPot to MB. Please comment on the relevant page. -- ChrisPurcell
Those of you with Safari 2 may have noticed an RSS link on the right of the RecentChanges URL. That's my doing. I don't know if
<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml"> is used by any other browsers, or if I add an alternative - anyone know? -- ChrisPurcell
I'm developing an intranet wiki system and came to this web site to find some general wiki patterns, etc. to learn from and gain inspiration, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to get around this thing. The HomePage, TableOfContents, etc. are all too "meta" and provide no topical index to the actual patterns and practices. RecentPages doesn't get me to anything useful either. Nagivation through the wiki should not require knowing the SecretPassages? (antipattern, just made that up, but again can't find a decent spot to put it). -- RichardTallent?
Richard, perhaps we need a RoadmapOfRoadmaps? or MasterRoadmap?. Until then look into CategoryRoadmap (backlink), perhaps WikiPatternLanguage and upcoming WikiPractices. Remember that no-one gets paid and we do not feel obliged to satisfy the silent reader, although we surely want to have attractive content to attract participants. Perhaps the chaos has a positive side: to provoke the lurkers to come out. I think it is a kind of paradoxical system. -- HelmutLeitner
Thanks to a repeat of the CoolHostCase, I've blocked one domain fragment from being posted to any page, as well as a singular text phrase used in the attack. Most distressingly, I made the block silent for now, to increase its chance of being effective. I hope nobody gets caught on it :/ Roll on domain bans. -- ChrisPurcell
I've brought AsynchronousAutorefresh to the main MB script. Please put any discussion, suggestions or praise on that page. -- ChrisPurcell
Quick update: I've fixed the Barnes and Noble links on automatic ISBN links. (They moved it to search.barnesandnoble.com, the cruel people.) -- ChrisPurcell
Should have mentioned this when I did it (a day or two ago), but it slipped my mind. Whoops. Anyway, as suggested on WikiNow, pages no longer display their last edited date. This is mainly to prompt discussion about something better to eventually put there. -- ChrisPurcell
Is there a problem with the server, or the local DNS? usemod.com is very patchy. -- ChrisPurcell
The VPS colo keeps running out of memory. -- SunirShah
Only CliffordAdams has the root password, so we're kind of stuck until he gets back online. --ss
We are now running 3 portscans on every IP. While if one OpenProxy gets through once, it is unlikely it will get through a second or third time. Meanwhile, AlexSchroeder is working beside me here in Frankfurt to MoveMeatballWikiToOddMuse?. -- SunirShah
Ok, there was a bug with the open proxy detector, which is why saves were so slow.' I've fixed it, but have had to reset the whitelist again. -- SunirShah
We received 48 attacks on August 10 alone. -- SunirShah
My performance at joining StadtwikiKarlsruhe was a shame. Over the course of almost three years I've tried to join wikis to the TourBus as fast as possible, typically in a few days: making contact, checking the TBS pages, explaining if necessary, looking for good places to join, suggesting and linking the pages, updating the TourBus Map. This is fun and rewarding most of the time. It's very direct building of relationships and social structure. This time it took me 2-3 weeks and I had to be reminded. Not because I missed some messages or hadn't the time - I felt just empty, tired and worn-out with respect to the TourBus. I don't know why. It's time to retire. A new mind and new energy is needed. Any idea, who could do it and how to hand this job over? Or should we assume that the TourBus is grown-up and can care for itself? -- HelmutLeitner