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If you want to take the TourBus, go to the TourBusStop.

[Rumah Dijual] [Building Signage] [Vertical Blind] [Roller Blind]

Anyone interested in organizing the bus, the routes, the bus stops and everything else, please join the Bus Management here on this page. You will be expected to cooperate, to leave your e-mail-address here (for urgent decisions) and follow the common decisions. Check here to see if there are tours you can drive or build: TourBusMap

The Bus Management will decide democratically on the routes and on all other issues of the TourBus.

Current member list of the BusManagement:

Anyone interested to contribute is invited to join. To join:

You might want to have a look at a wiki known as handgranat.org

New Essay by SunirShah

After I returned from Europe and finally had a chance to look into the rapidly growing TourBus project, what I saw worried me. I was afraid that the BusManagement may conflict with my goals for MeatBall that I have worked on for the past three years. Most of this was probably due to misunderstanding the state of the TourBus pages at the time. This led to a large argument and falling out between myself and the TourBus people. That I am emphatically not proud of.

While I still feel that more aggressive user empowerment will be the only stable way forward, my goals for Meatball supersede those concerns. As Helmut was trying to point out, Meatball really is responsible to the larger wiki community - or at least I think it should be - and thus it (and I) must remain supportive - and besides, there are better BarnRaising ways of working on this. This is not to say that I now think Meatball should have power over the wiki community; rather that Meatball now serves it. We are here to help.

Conversely, the TourBus will empower Meatball by positioning it closer to the centre of the action and by enriching it with a wider experience. While previously I had chosen to keep MeatballWiki out of the way of other projects' distorting forces, I no longer feel that is necessary. MeatballWiki has matured to the point where it can begin to look outside itself, and thus it should.

This is a confusing mishmash of personal opinions, addresses to the community at large, and core community values. Think of this as a hint of where I want to go next, and I would be pleased if the rest of the community agrees. -- SunirShah

The future of the TourBus - a wiki model institution

I think that the TourBus is bound to become a kind of institution. That means, as we go along, we will have the problem to restrict powers and to find a way for collective decisions. Some may think that this is "not the wiki way", but it may be inevitable. As the wiki grows and gains importance, we will cross the border of the "gaming zone" and come into an area where real interests are concerned. This will happen earlier or later anyway, so I suggest to take the TourBus as a model, where we can design this without much pressure. -- HelmutLeitner

I think that the wiki way is good enough, and that wikis have crossed the line into real interest a long time ago. I also think that we do not need to restrict power, because we use SoftSecurity. We use it against spam pages, off-topic pages, abuse - why not use it now? I therefore suggest we cut the TourBus model back to wiki dimensions. Wikis do work, we know it. The TourBus model guards against problems that do not even exist yet (you are not going to need it!). But I somehow feel that we are just reiterating our points without making any real progress. Does anybody have a ConflictResolution at hand? -- AlexSchroeder

I agree that we are going in cycles. I thought that now - Sunir being back - might be a good time to discuss and advance the ideas and reach a consensus, but seemingly it isn't. So I think I will turn to the extension of the TourBus again. -- hl

(march 03) has this issues of wiki-style vs management commi


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